The Ending of Time

740 Pages·1985·1.17 MB·English

by  Jiddu Krishnamurti and David Bohm

http://www.freeweb.hu/tchl/the_ending_of_time/the_ending_of_time.html
Chapter 1
The Roots Of Psychological Conflict
Chapter 2
Cleansing The Mind Of The Accumulation Of Time
Chapter 3
Why Has Man Given Supreme Importance To
Thought?
Chapter 4
Breaking The Pattern Of Ego-Centred Activity
Chapter 5
The Ground Of Being, And The Mind Of Man
Chapter 6
Can Insight Bring About A Mutation Of The Brain Cells
Chapter 7
Death Has Very Little Meaning
Chapter 8
Can Insight Be Awakened In Another
Chapter 9
Senility And The Brain Cells
Chapter 10
Cosmic Order
Chapter 11
The Ending Of 'Psychological' Knowledge
Chapter 12
The Mind In The Universe
Chapter 13
Can Personal Problems Be Solved, And Fragmentation
End
- Longer, Unedited Versions -
Chapter 1
Chapter 2
Chapter 3
Chapter 4
Chapter 5
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Chapter 6
Chapter 7
Chapter 8
Chapter 9
Chapter 10
Chapter 11
Chapter 12
Chapter 13
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THE ENDING OF TIME CHAPTER 1 1ST APRIL 1980 CONVERSATIO... PROF. DAVID BOHM 'THE ROOTS OF PSYCHOLOGICAL CONFLICT'
THE ENDING OF TIME CHAPTER 1 1ST APRIL
1980 CONVERSATION WITH PROF. DAVID
BOHM 'THE ROOTS OF PSYCHOLOGICAL
CONFLICT'
KRISHNAMURTI: How shall we start? I would like to ask if
humanity has taken a wrong turn.
DAVID BOHM: A wrong turn? Well it must have done so, a
long time ago, I think.
K: That is what I feel. A long time ago... It appears that way -
why? You see, as I look at it, mankind has always tried to become
something.
DB: Well possibly. I was struck by something I once read about
man going wrong about five or six thousand years ago, when he
began to be able to plunder and take slaves. After that, his main
purpose of existence was just to exploit and plunder.
K: Yes, but there is the sense of inward becoming.
DB: Well, we should make it clear how this is connected. What
kind of becoming was involved in doing that? Instead of being
constructive, and discovering new techniques and tools and so on,
man at a certain time found it easier to plunder his neighbours.
Now what did they want to become?
K: Conflict has been the root of all this.
DB: What was the conflict? If we could put ourselves in the
place of those people of long ago, how would you see that conflict?
K: What is the root of conflict? Not only outwardly, but also
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THE ENDING OF TIME CHAPTER 1 1ST APRIL 1980 CONVERSATIO... PROF. DAVID BOHM 'THE ROOTS OF PSYCHOLOGICAL CONFLICT'
this tremendous inward conflict of humanity? What is the root of
it?
DB: Well, it seems that it is contradictory desires.
K: No. Is it that in all religions, you must become something?
You must reach something?
DB: Then what made people want to do that? Why weren't they
satisfied to be whatever they were? You see, the religion would not
have caught on unless people felt that there was some attraction in
becoming something more.
K: Isn't it an avoidance, not being able to face the fact, and
therefore moving to something else - to more and more and more?
DB: What would you say was the fact that people couldn't stay
with?
K: The Christians have said, Original Sin.
DB: But the wrong turn happened long before that.
K: Yes, long before that. Long before that, the Hindus had this
idea of Karma. What is the origin of all this?
DB: We have said that there was the fact that people couldn't
stay with. Whatever it was, they wanted to imagine something
better.
K: Yes, something better. Becoming.
DB: And you could say that they began to make things
technologically better, then they extended this, and said, `I too
must become better.'
K: Yes, inwardly become better.
DB: All of us together must become better.
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THE ENDING OF TIME CHAPTER 1 1ST APRIL 1980 CONVERSATIO... PROF. DAVID BOHM 'THE ROOTS OF PSYCHOLOGICAL CONFLICT'
K: That's right. What is the root of all this?
DB: Well, I should think it is natural in thought to project this
goal of becoming better. That is, it is intrinsic in the structure of
thought.
K: Is it that the principle of becoming better outwardly has
moved to becoming better inwardly?
DB: If it is good to become better outwardly, then why
shouldn't I become better inwardly?
K: Is that the cause of the conflict?
DB: That is getting towards it. It's coming nearer. K: Is it
coming nearer? Is time the factor? Time - as `I need knowledge in
order to do this or that'? The same principle applied inwardly? Is
time the factor?
DB: I can't see that time by itself can be the only factor.
K: No, no. Time. Becoming - which implies time.
DB: Yes, but we don't see how time is going to cause trouble.
We have to say that time applied outwardly doesn't cause any
difficulty.
K: It causes a certain amount - but we are discussing the idea of
time,inwardly.
DB: So we have to see why time is so destructive inwardly.
K: Because I am trying to become something.
DB: Yes, but most people would say that this is only natural.
You have to explain what it is that is wrong about becoming.
K: Obviously, there is conflict, in that when I am trying to
become something, it is a constant battle.
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THE ENDING OF TIME CHAPTER 1 1ST APRIL 1980 CONVERSATIO... PROF. DAVID BOHM 'THE ROOTS OF PSYCHOLOGICAL CONFLICT'
DB: Yes. Can we go into that: why is it a constant battle? It is
not a battle if I try to improve my position outwardly.
K: Outwardly, no. It is more or less all right outwardly, but
when that same principle is applied inwardly it brings about a
contradiction.
DB: And the contradiction is.?
K: Between `what is' and `becoming what should be'.
DB: The difficulty is, why is it a contradiction inwardly and not
outwardly?
K: Inwardly it builds up a centre, doesn't it, an egotistic centre?
DB: Yes, but can we find some reason why it should do so?
Does it build up when we do it Outwardly? It seems it need not.
K: It need not.
DB: But when we are doing it inwardly, then we are trying to
force ourselves to be something that we are not. K: Yes. That is a
fact. Is it that one's brain is so accustomed to conflict that one
rejects any other form of living?
DB: But why have people come to the conclusion that conflict
is inevitable and necessary?
K: What is the origin of conflict?
DB: I think we touched on that by saying that we are trying to
force ourselves. When we are a certain thing that we want to be,
we also want to be something else, which is different; and therefore
we want two different things at the same time. Would that seem
right?
K: I understand that. But I am trying to find out the origin of all
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THE ENDING OF TIME CHAPTER 1 1ST APRIL 1980 CONVERSATIO... PROF. DAVID BOHM 'THE ROOTS OF PSYCHOLOGICAL CONFLICT'
this misery, confusion, conflict, struggle - what is the beginning of
it? That's why I asked at the beginning: has mankind taken a wrong
turn? Is the origin, `I am not I'.?
DB: I think that is getting closer.
K: Yes, that's it. And the `I' - why has mankind created this `I',
which must, inevitably, cause conflict? `I' and `you', and `I' better
than `you', and so on, and so on.
DB: I think it was a mistake made a long time ago, or, as you
call it, a wrong turn, that having introduced separation between
various things outwardly, we then kept on doing it - not out of ill
will but simply through not knowing better.
K: Quite.
DB: Not seeing what we were doing.
K: Is that the origin of all this conflict?
DB: I am not sure that it is the origin. What do you feel?
K: I am inclined to observe that the origin is the ego, the `me',
the`I'.
DB: Yes.
K: If there is no ego, there is no problem, there is no conflict,
there is no time - time in the sense of becoming or not becoming;
being or not being.
DB: But it might be that we would still slip into whatever it was
that made us make the ego in the first place. K: Wait a minute. Is it
that energy - being so vast, limitless - has been condensed or
narrowed down in the mind, and the brain itself has become
narrowed because it couldn't contain all this enormous energy?
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THE ENDING OF TIME CHAPTER 1 1ST APRIL 1980 CONVERSATIO... PROF. DAVID BOHM 'THE ROOTS OF PSYCHOLOGICAL CONFLICT'
You are following what I am saying?
DB: Yes.
K: And therefore the brain has gradually narrowed down to
`me', to the `I'.
DB: I don't quite follow that. I understand that that is what
happened, but I don't quite see all the steps. You say energy was
enormous and the brain couldn't handle it, or decided that it
couldn't handle it?
K: It couldn't handle it.
DB: But if it can't handle it, it seems as if there is no way out.
K: No, just a minute. Go slowly. I just want to enquire, push
into it a little bit. Why has the brain, with all thought, created this
sense of `me', `I'? Why?
DB: We needed a certain sense of identity to function.
K: Yes, to function.
DB: To know where we belong.
K: Yes. And is that the movement which has brought the `me'?
The movement of the outer? I had to identify, with the family, the
house, the trade or profession. All this gradually became the `me'?
DB: I think that this energy that you are talking about also
entered into it.
K: Yes, but I want to lead up to that slowly.
DB: You see, what you say is right, that in some way this sense
of the `me' gradually strengthened, but by itself that wouldn't
explain the tremendous strength that the ego has. It would only be
a habit then. The ego becoming completely dominant required that
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THE ENDING OF TIME CHAPTER 1 1ST APRIL 1980 CONVERSATIO... PROF. DAVID BOHM 'THE ROOTS OF PSYCHOLOGICAL CONFLICT'
it should become the focus of the greatest energy; of all the energy.
K: Is that it? That the brain cannot hold this vast energy? DB:
Let's say that the brain is trying to control this - to bring it to order.
K: Energy has no order.
DB: But if the brain feels it can't control something that is going
on inside, it will try to establish order.
K: Could we say that the brain, your brain, his brain, her brain,
has not just been born; it is very, very old?
DB: In what sense?
K: In the sense that it has evolved.
DB: Evolved, yes, from the animal. And the animal has
evolved. So let's say that in a sense this whole evolution is
somehow contained in the brain.
K: I want to question evolution. I understand, say, evolution
from the bullock cart to the jet.
DB: Yes. But before you question, we have to consider the
evidence of man developing through a series of stages. You can't
question that, can you?
K: No, of course not.
DB: I mean, physically it is clear that evolution has occurred in
some way.
K: Physically, yes.
DB: And the brain has got larger, more complex. But you may
question whether mentally evolution has any meaning.
K: You see, I want to abolish time, psychologically. You
understand?
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