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Philosophy (cid:129) Literature hd
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“Whatever you asked her—within the fi eld she knew—she had not only an answer, but an en- tk
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cyclopedia of knowledge in her mind backing up her answer with identifi cations, integrations,
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connections, illustrations. Suppose you asked her what she thought of a movie she’d just seen.
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By the time she fi nished her answer, it was as if you had taken an entire course in esthetics,
movie-making, dialogue construction, philosophy, and art.”
—Leonard Peikoff, from the epilogue
Readers and students of Ayn Rand will value seeing in this collection of interviews how Ayn
Rand applied her philosophy and moral principles to the issues of the day. Objectively Speaking
includes half a century of print and broadcast interviews drawn from the Ayn Rand Archives. O
The thirty-two interviews in this collection, edited by Marlene Podritske and Peter Schwartz, B
include print interviews from the 1930s and edited transcripts of radio and television inter- J
views from the 1940s through 1981. Selections are included from a remarkable series of radio E
broadcasts over a four-year period (1962–1966) on Columbia University’s station WKCR in C
New York City and syndicated throughout the United States and Canada. T
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Ayn Rand’s unusual and strikingly original insights on a vast range of topics are captured by
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prominent interviewers in the history of American television broadcasting, such as Johnny
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Carson, Edwin Newman, Mike Wallace, and Louis Rukeyser. The collection concludes with Y
an interview with Dr. Leonard Peikoff on his radio program in 1999, recalling his thirty-year
personal and professional association with Ayn Rand and discussing her unique intellectual
S
and literary achievements. OBJECTIVELY
P
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Ayn Rand is the best-selling author of Atlas Shrugged, The Fountainhead, Anthem, and We the
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Living. Fifty years or more after publication, sales of these novels continue to increase.
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Marlene Podritske is a freelance editor, writer, and designer. N
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Peter Schwartz is author of The Foreign Policy of Self-Interest: A Moral Ideal for America and
editor of Ayn Rand’s Return of the Primitive: The Anti-Industrial Revolution.
SPEAKING
For orders and information please contact the publisher Ayn Rand
Lexington Books
A division of Rowman & Littlefi eld Publishers, Inc. Interviewed
4501 Forbes Boulevard, Suite 200
Lanham, Maryland 20706
1-800-462-6420 Edited by
www.lexingtonbooks.com 90000 Marlene Podritske
Cover design by Neil D. Cotterill 9 780739 131954 and Peter Schwartz
OObbjjeeccttSSppeeaakkDDSSRRPPBBKK..iinndddd 11 1122//11//0088 11::5544::1122 PPMM
Objectively Speaking
Objectively Speaking
Ayn Rand Interviewed
Edited by
Marlene Podritske
and Peter Schwartz
LEXINGTON BOOKS
A division of
ROWMAN & LITTLEFIELD PUBLISHERS, INC.
Lanham (cid:129) Boulder (cid:129) New York (cid:129) Toronto (cid:129) Plymouth, UK
LEXINGTON BOOKS
A division of Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, Inc.
A wholly owned subsidiary of The Rowman & Littlefield Publishing Group, Inc.
4501 Forbes Boulevard, Suite 200
Lanham, MD 20706
Estover Road
Plymouth PL6 7PY
United Kingdom
Copyright © 2009 by The Ayn Rand Institute
All rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a
retrieval system, or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic, mechanical,
photocopying, recording, or otherwise, without the prior permission of the publisher.
British Library Cataloguing in Publication Information Available
Library of Congress Cataloging-in-Publication Data
Objectively speaking: Ayn Rand interviewed / edited by Marlene Podritske and
Peter Schwartz.
p. cm.
Includes index.
ISBN-13: 978-0-7391-3194-7 (cloth: alk. paper)
ISBN-10: 0-7391-3194-X (cloth: alk. paper)
ISBN-13: 978-0-7391-3195-4 (pbk.: alk. paper)
ISBN-10: 0-7391-3195-8 (pbk.: alk. paper)
ISBN-13: 978-0-7391-3196-1 (e-book)
ISBN-10: 0-7391-3196-6 (e-book)
1. Rand, Ayn—Interviews. I. Podritske, Marlene, 1948– II. Schwartz, Peter, 1949–
B945.R234A5 2009
191—dc22
2008045442
Printed in the United States of America
(cid:2)™
The paper used in this publication meets the minimum requirements of
American National Standard for Information Sciences—Permanence of Paper
for Printed Library Materials, ANSI/NISO Z39.48-1992.
Contents
Preface vii
Acknowledgments xi
Part 1: Beginnings:
A Russian Émigré’s First Interviews (1932–1949)
1 “Russian Girl Jeers at U.S. for Depression Complaint,”
Oakland Tribune, 1932 3
2 “True Picture of Russian Girls’ Love Life Tragic,”
Boston Post, 1936 5
3 “The Woman of Tomorrow,” WJZ Radio, 1949 9
Part 2: On Campus:
Ayn Rand Talks With Future Intellectuals (1962–1966)
4 Objectivism versus Conservatism 15
5 The Campaign against “Extremism” 23
6 The “Robber-Barons” 31
7 Myths of Capitalism 37
8 The Political Structure of a Free Society 43
9 The American Constitution 51
10 Objective Law 59
11 The Role of a Free Press 67
12 Education 81
v
vi Contents
13 Romantic Literature 95
14 Romanticism versus Naturalism 101
15 The Visual Arts 109
16 Cyrano de Bergerac 117
17 Favorites in Art 123
18 The Nature of Humor 131
19 The Foundations of Morality 139
20 Altruism 143
21 Individual Rights 153
22 The Ethics of Objectivism 159
Part 3: On Television and Radio:
Ayn Rand in America’s Living Rooms (1959–1981)
23 “The Mike Wallace Interview,” ABC-TV, 1959 169
24 For the Intellectual, University of Michigan Television,
with Professor James McConnell, 1961 179
25 The Tonight Show, with Johnny Carson, NBC-TV,
August 1967 189
26 The Tonight Show, with Johnny Carson, NBC-TV,
October 1967 199
27 Speaking Freely, with Edwin Newman, NBC-TV, 1972 207
28 Day and Night, a television program hosted by James Day, 1974 223
29 Focus on Youth, a radio show hosted by Garth R. Ancier, 1976 233
30 The Raymond Newman Journal, a radio show, 1980 241
31 Louis Rukeyser’s Business Journal, 1981 253
Epilogue: Leonard Peikoff and Recollections of Ayn Rand 255
Index 267
Preface
Ayn Rand expressed a reluctance to grant interviews, concerned that complex
ideas could be easily misunderstood and serious discussion limited due to the
“in-a-nutshell” constraints of live programming. Further, the growing popu-
larity of the talk-show format (complete with audience participation and an
often confrontational host) was replacing the one-to-one interview she pre-
ferred. This change had the potential to make appearances more argumenta-
tive than informative. As an invited guest, she welcomed the opportunity to
present her ideas but believed, justifiably, that this setting was often an inef-
fectual, if not dishonest, venue for intellectual discussion. As she remarked
to Johnny Carson during her second appearance on The Tonight Show (see
chapter 26), when he commented on this adversarial interview strategy, “I’m
always glad to discuss ideas, but not to debate them.”
When she did agree to appear, however, she was always a lively, fully-
engaged participant, defending her views unyieldingly, against all challenges.
Her intellectual consistency over time and in a multitude of contexts is in full
evidence in this collection. Her unrehearsed responses to these interviewers—
from the skeptic to the sycophant, the antagonist to the advocate—ring with
the same unequivocal coherence and conviction that define her written work.
Here is Ayn Rand in extemporaneous, impassioned interaction—clarifying,
teaching, admonishing, supporting, correcting.
Ayn Rand’s intensive interview schedule during the 1960s was initiated
by the interest on the part of professors and students in her philosophy of
Objectivism, as articulated in her 1957 novel, Atlas Shrugged. Later, her new
nonfiction works elaborated on the principles of that philosophy and stimu-
lated many of the remaining interviews. But whatever the original motivation,
her appearances typically developed into wide-ranging discussions offering
vii
viii Preface
insights into social phenomena, lessons on the arts, autobiographical details,
and commentary on political and cultural personalities.
The underlying structure of the book is chronological. Part 1 includes:
her first known interview, at age 27; her excerpted responses from a heavily
editorialized article; and her initial radio interview, with a rather ill-prepared
host.
Part 2 is a selection from two series recorded intermittently at Columbia
University, between 1962 and 1966, and represents the most active period of
her public appearances. A panel of professors and students would query Ayn
Rand on specific principles of Objectivism and their application to “living on
earth.” Both series were rebroadcast at various times throughout the United
States and Canada, making the exact sequence of the extant tapes unclear.
Therefore, the interviews in this section logically lent themselves to classifica-
tion by topic rather than chronology. Different interviews on the same subject
(e.g., education) were combined and material from one interview that was
clearly more appropriate to another topic was moved.
Part 3 is devoted to interviews from both general and specialized media,
beginning with Mike Wallace in 1959 and concluding with her final public
appearance in 1981 with Louis Rukeyser. Fittingly, the book’s epilogue be-
longs to Dr. Leonard Peikoff, her heir and the one who knew her best, as he
fondly recalls, in a 1999 radio interview, his thirty-year personal and profes-
sional association with Ayn Rand.
These interviews are essentially structured conversations. My task was
to eliminate the repetitions, grammatical errors, and self-corrections that
are common in extemporaneous speech but which often lead to confusions
or awkwardness in print. Extraneous material was deleted and interviewers’
lengthy preambles to questions were shortened.
I found that without the oral and visual cues of intonation, expression,
and gesture, particular emphases and connotations could be lost to the reader.
Therefore, the occasional exchanges that relied heavily on these conversa-
tional signposts were reformulated to make them clearer in print, while the
integrity of both the question and the response was maintained. I sought to
minimize editorial alterations in order to preserve the natural flow and flavor
of dialogue as much as possible. The reader is cautioned to be mindful that
these interviews are not necessarily Ayn Rand’s final, considered arguments
on any point; they are not meant to stand as her official statements and they
have been edited without her oversight. Coeditor Peter Schwartz completed
the final editing for redundancy, clarity, economy, and accuracy.
Although Ayn Rand denied any interest in being a “teacher,” when she
did assume that role, she took pains to be a great one, as is evident in many
of these interviews. She insisted on the defining of terms as a prerequisite to
Preface ix
any kind of meaningful, focused discussion. Always clear, logical, and patient,
she sought to elevate her questioners’ own thinking skills. Her occasional
flashes of anger were never directed at those she believed were struggling to
understand, but were reserved for those who intentionally sought to miscon-
strue her words.
A wonderful illustration of her understanding of the teaching process
occurred in a 1967 radio interview (not included in this book) when she
described a lecture she had recently given at Columbia University. It demon-
strates her ability to communicate ideas and stimulate intellectual inquiry—
the proper role of a teacher. Her obvious satisfaction with the experience
relies not on the audience’s agreement with her views, but on the response of
active minds to the logic and rationality of her presentation.
I was invited by a young professor to address students studying business
economics. About 400 people crowded into the classroom to listen to my
topic, “What is Capitalism?” What I presented certainly was not a hesi-
tant, uncertain, or compromising view of capitalism. I was presenting an
extreme and unpopular viewpoint. Yet that audience sat in enthusiastic
attention through the whole hour. When I say enthusiastic, I mean that
they responded at the right moments with the proper reactions. Therefore,
I knew that they were hearing me. The most fascinating part was the ques-
tion period. It was quite obvious from the questions that most of the stu-
dents were not in agreement with my viewpoint. Yet they were interested;
their minds were active. They were asking polite, appropriate, intelligent
questions. They were responding to my moral certainty. They did not have
to agree with me. But what they obviously needed and responded to was
the sight of a speaker who was intellectually certain of her case, and was
able to give them reasons for any statement. They wanted to hear reasons,
and responded remarkably.
These interviews, spanning six decades, were selected to provide the
broadest scope of topics from both mainstream and niche media, with a
gamut of interviewers from the famous professional to the anonymous ama-
teur. Interviews available in anthologies or as reprints (such as her Playboy
interview) and those dealing with very localized issues were excluded (as, of
course, were those of copyright-holders who did not grant permission to use
their material).
In 1975, when challenged about her opposition to “women’s lib” by The
Christian Science Monitor, she explained, “I’m against that for the same reason
I’m against racism. I am against classifying anyone on anatomical, physi-
ological grounds. What makes you human is your mind, and that is in your
control; that’s what you are to be judged on.”
