Table Of ContentS. Hrg. 103-401
IMPROVING GOVERNMENT ORGANIZATION AND
PERFORMANCE
Y 4. G 74/9: S. HRG. 103-401
Inproving Governnent Organization a..
•
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED THIRD CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
MARCH 11, 1993
Printed for the use of the Committee on Governmental Affairs
-
APR1
9 V
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
65-990cc WASHINGTON : 1994
ForsalebytheU.S.GovernmentPrintingOffice
SuperintendentofDocuments.CongressionalSalesOffice.Washington.DC 20402
ISBN 0-16-043583-8
S. Hrg. 103-401
IMPROVING GOVERNMENT ORGANIZATION AND
PERFORMANCE
Y4.G
74/9: S. HRG. 103-401
Inproving Covernnent Organization a...
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED THIRD CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
MARCH 11, 1993
Printed for the use of the Committee on Governmental Affairs
APR
1 9 r
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
65-990cc WASHINGTON : 1994
ForsalebytheU.S.GovernmentPrintingOffice
SuperintendentofDocuments.CongressionalSalesOffice.Washington.DC 20402
ISBN 0-16-043583-8
COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
JOHN GLENN, Ohio, Chairman
SAM NUNN, Georgia WILLIAM V. ROTH, Jr., Delaware
CARL LEVIN, Michigan TED STEVENS, Alaska
JIM SASSER, Tennessee WILLIAM S. COHEN, Maine
DAVID PRYOR, Arkansas THAD COCHRAN, Mississippi
JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut JOHN McCAIN, Arizona
DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii
BYRON L. DORGAN, North Dakota
Leonard Weiss, StaffDirector
David Plocher, Counsel
Mark Goldstein, Professional StaffMember
Franklin G. Polk, Minority StaffDirector and ChiefCounsel
Michal Sue Prosser, ChiefClerk
(II)
CONTENTS
Openingstatements: Page
SenatorGlenn *
SenatorRoth
SenatorLevin J°
Senator Dorgan • j"
SenatorLieberman
jj:
SenatorPryor
SenatorMcCain j*~£
SenatorStevens j'
SenatorCochran i8
Prepared statements:
SenatorSasser J?
SenatorKerrey dd
WITNESSES
Thursday, March 11, 1993
Hon Harry Reid, U.S. Senatorfromthe State ofNevada 18
Hon Charles A. Bowsher, Comptroller General, U.S. General Accounting
Office; accompanied by William M. Hunt, Director ofFederal Management
Issues; and David G. Mathiasen, SpecialAssistant 25
Leon E. Panetta, Director, Office ofManagementand Budget 41
David Osborne, Author of"ReinventingGovernment" .. o<
Martin L. Gross, Author of "The Government Racket: Washington Waste
fromAto Z" •••••: £>
Peri E. Arnold, ProfessorofGovernment, Notre Dame Universi:ty b/
Alphabetical List of Witnesses
Arnold, Peri E.:
Testimony j?'
Prepared statement 1U°
Bowsher, CharlesA.:
Testimony £?
Prepared statement B1
Gross,Martin L.:
Testimony
Prepared statement 1jUgU
Osborne, David: _
Testimony j>'
Prepared statement yd
Panetta, Leon A.:
Testimony
Prepared statementwith attachments £°'7
Reid, Hon. Harry:
Testimony £°
Prepared statement iil
APPENDIX
Prepared statements ofwitnesses in orderofappearance 81
(III)
IMPROVING GOVERNMENT ORGANIZATION
AND PERFORMANCE
THURSDAY, MARCH 11, 1993
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Governmental Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:32 a.m., in room
SD-342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. John Glenn, Chair-
man ofthe Committee, presiding.
Present: Senators Glenn, Levin, Pryor, Lieberman, Dorgan, Roth,
Stevens, Cochran and McCain.
Also present: Senator Kerrey.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR GLENN
Chairman Glenn. The hearing will be in order.
This morning, the Committee on Governmental Affairs meets to
consider the critical issue ofimproving the performance and organi-
zation of the Federal Government, a giant task, if there ever was
one.
At the same time I say it is a giant task, I also would say it is
a very unique opportunity, because rarely in our history have calls
We
for government reform come together in such a positive way.
now have what may bejust the right mix ofpolitical consensus and
public pressure to successfully overhaul the government.
Americans voted for change last November, and the need to
change government is one reason why. There is a profou—nd feeling
in the country that government has not been doing itsjob notjust
that tax dollars are wasted, but that government cannot be counted
on to help improve the Nation's future or to support the current as-
pirations of ordinary Americans. This leads to the obvious question
of whether the present government organization can operate effec-
tively in these days.
Thus, I commend President Clinton for making a bold beginning,
for proposing an economic plan that focuses on investment and the
future, and for establishing a task force under the direction ofVice
President Gore to eliminate wasteful spending and streamline Fed-
eral programs.
Indeed, the Vice President's National Performance Review is per-
fectly complementary to the efforts that this Committee has long
been involved with, namely, the creation and support of inspectors
general and chief financial officers to fight waste and to improve
accountability for financial and general management.
The public demands we do more, and rightly so, and that is what
today's hearing is about. While Congress and the public hope the
(l)
President can take advantage of a 6-month government-wide per-
formance review, many of our problems are more complicated and
more substantial. They can only be solved through a comprehensive
and collective approach using the talents and experience of both
the Executive and Legislative Branches.
This broader effort is embodied in the four government reform
commission bills now before this Committee: S. 15 was introduced
by Senator Roth; S. 255 was introduced by Senator Campbell; S.
432 introduced by Senator Lieberman and cosponsored by Senator
Kerrey, who we are pleased to have with us today; and S. 101, my
bill, to establish a bipartisan commission to recommend changes
and to write legislation to streamline and reorganize government
to better focus on our Nation's needs.
In addition to these commission bills, the Committee has before
it Senator Krueger's legislation, S. 436, to statutorily create a gov-
ernment-wide performance review, like the President's, and Sen-
ator Reid's sunset bill that would require periodic reauthorization
of Federal programs. Indeed, we are pleased to have Senator Reid
who is going to be testifying before the Committee today.
A number of years ago this Committee did a lot of work on the
sunset and zero-based budgeting concepts and passed legislation
through the Senate, but failed to get House agreement. At the be-
ginning of this year, I asked the staff to review those previous ef-
forts with a view toward implementing them now, so I am particu-
larly glad to have Senator Reid's bill before us.
Each ofthese pieces oflegislation will be considered by the Com-
mittee and will contribute much to our deliberations.
I am sure we are all a bit suspicious ofgrand plans and commis-
sions. Grand plans and commissions, how many we have heard of.
Too many of them have come and gone, leaving behind dashed
hopes and recommendations collecting dust on many, many
shelves. But every now and then, the time is right.
The time was right 45 years ago, when a commission led by
former President Herbert Hoover successfully streamlined a gov-
ernment grown too large and disorganized through the trials ofthe
Great Depression and later World War II. Many ofthe changes rec-
ommended by the Hoover Commission were approved by the Con-
gress, and they were approved because of a consensus that we
needed a more effective government for what was clearly a chang-
ing world.
I believe the time is also right today. All of us are well aware
that our Nation and our world are changing rapidly. And we are
equally aware or should be aware that a government still largely
organized for the Great Depression and later the Cold War cannot
possibly help America meet the challenges oftoday or ofthe future.
Farming has been completely transformed in the past half-cen-
tury. Yet, the Agriculture Department still retains an office, some-
times several offices, in nearly every county in the Nation. Job
training and development is of paramount importance to America's
retaining a competitive edge in a global economy, but our citizens
must wade through a bewildering array of 125 different job pro-
grams funded from 48 different sources in 14 different agencies,
just to try to get help.
Now, does this mean we go to a more mission oriented-type orga-
nization ofgovernment? I do not know, but I know that we are not
doing the properjob when we have an organization like this in gov-
ernment right now. That isjust one example.
I know, as I am sure my colleagues know, that reforming the
government historically has proven to be very, very difficult. And
while a credible effort by a commission will by its nature be con-
troversial, this does not relieve us of the obligation to improve the
government's performance ofits responsibilities to its citizens.
I believe a commission, with a mechanism to ensure congres-
sional action on its recommendations, can do much for long-term
reform. I also believe, however, that there is much to be done now.
In addition to continuing the work begun by the Inspectors General
and Chief Financial Officers Acts, we can institute reforms for
which there already exists a consensus.
One such initiative would improve the performance of Federal
programs, and is an effort that is critical to restoring government's
public credibility. To his credit, Senator Roth has long been a lead-
er in submitting legislation in this area, and I think that S.20,
which is the result of our work together over the past year or so
in this Committee, will help bring a more meaningful and effective
approach to the role and responsibilities of government. S.20
unanimously passed the Senate in the last Congress, and I am cer-
tain it will pass again. We look forward to working with the House
and the administration to quickly enact this important bill.
With us this morning to testify is our colleague Senator Harry
Reid —from Nevada. He will be followed by the Honorable Leon Pa-
netta although Leon may be a little late, he is over in the House
testifying this morning and may not be here until about 10:30, so
we may change the order a little bit. But ifhe arrives, we will take
him on. He is Director of the Office of Management and Budget,
of course, and he will discuss the new National Performance Re-
view, as well as our longer-term commission proposals and our per-
formance measurement legislation, S. 20. Also testifying is the
Honorable Charles Bowsher, Comptroller General of the United
States, who has appeared before our Committee many, many times.
Our final panel has Mr. David Osborne, author of "Reinventing
Government," Mr. Martin Gross, author of"The Government Rack-
et: Washington Waste From A to Z," and Professor Peri Arnold of
the University of Notre Dame, who is an expert on the history of
Executive Branch reorganization.
So we welcome you all this morning and look forward to your tes-
timony this morning.
Prepared Statementof SenatorGlenn
This morning, the Committee on Governmental Affairs meets to considerthe criti-
cal issue ofimprovingthe performance and organization ofthe Federal Government.
We have a unique opportunity. Rarely in ou—r history have calls for governmental
reform come together in such a positive way we now have what may be just the
rightmix ofpolitical consensus and publicpressure to successfully overhaul the gov-
ernment.
Americans voted for change last November, and the need to change government
is one reason why. There is a profound feeling in the country that government
hasn't been doing itsjob—notjust that tax dollars are wasted, but that government
cannot be counted on to help improve the Nation's future or to support the current
aspirations ofordinaryAmericans. This leads to the obvious question ofwhetherthe
presentgovernment organization can operate effectively in these days.
Thus, I commend President Clinton for making a bold beginning, for proposingan
economicplan thatfocuses on investmentand thefuture, and for establishingatask
force under the direction ofVice President Gore to eliminate wasteful spending and
streamline Federal programs. Indeed, theVicePresident'sNational Performance Re-
view is perfectly complementary to the efforts that this Committee has long been
involved with, namely the creation and support ofInspectors General and ChiefFi-
nancial Officers to fight waste and to improve accountability for financial and gen-
eral management.
Yet, the public demands we do more. And that is what today's hearing is about.
While Congress and the public hope the President can take full advantage of a 6-
month government-wide performance review, many ofour problems are more com-
[>licated and substantial. They can only be solved through a comprehensive and col-
ective approach using the talents and experience ofboth the Executive and Legisla-
tive Branches. This broader effort is embodied in the four government reform com-
mission bills now before this Committee:
—
—S. 15, introduced by SenatorRoth;
—S. 255, introduced by SenatorCampbell;
S. 432, introduced by Senator Lieberman, and co-sponsored by Senator Kerrey,
whowe are pleased to have with us today; and
—S. 101, my bill to establish a bipartisan commission to recommend changes, and
to write legislation to streamline and reorganize government to better focus on our
Nation's needs.
In addition to these commission bills, the Committee has before it Senator
Krueger's legislation (S. 436) to statutorily create a government-wide performance
review (like the President's), and Senator—Reid's sunset bill that would require peri-
odic reauthorization of Federal programs indeed, we are pleased to have Senator
Reid here today to testify before the Committee.
A number ofyears ago, this Committee did a lot ofwork on the sunset and zero
based budgeting concepts, and passed legislation through the Senate, but failed to
getHouse agreement. Atthe beginningofthisyear, I asked the staffto reviewthose
previous efforts, with a view toward implementing, so I'm particularly glad to have
SenatorReid's bill before us.
Each ofthese pieces of legislation will be considered by the Committee and will
contribute much to ourdeliberations. —
I am sure that we are all a bit suspicious ofgrand plans and commissions too
many ofthem have come and gone, leaving behind dashed hopes and recommenda-
tions collecting dust on a shelves. But every now and then, the time is right. The
time was right 45 years ago, when a commission led by former President Herbert
Hoover successfully streamlined a government grown too large and disorganized
through the trials ofthe Great Depression and World War II. Many oft—he changes
recommended by the Hoover Commission were approved by the Congress and they
were approved because ofa consensus that we needed a more effective government
forwhat was clearly a changingworld.
The time is also right today. All of us are well awar—e that our Nation an—d our
world are changing rapidly. And we are equally aware or should be aware that
a government still largely organized for the Great Depression and later the Cold
War cannotpossibly helpAmericameetthe challenges oftoday or ofthefuture.
Farming has been completely transformed in the past half-century, yet the Agri-
culture Department still retains an office, sometimes several offices, in nearly every
county in the Nation. Job training and development is ofparamount importance to
America's retaining a competitive edge in a global economy, but our citizens must
wade through a bewilderingarray of125 differentjob programs to gethelp.
I know, as I am sure my colleagues know, that reforming the government histori-
cally has proven to be very difficult. And while a credible effort by a commission
will by its nature be controversial, this does not relieve us ofthe obligation to im-
prove the government's pe—rformance ofits responsibilities to its citizens.
I believe a comm—ission with a mechanism to ensure congressional action on its
recommendations can do much for long term reform. I also believe, however, that
there is much to be done now. In addition to continuing the work begun by the IG
and CFO Acts, we can institute reforms for which there already exists a consensus.
One such initiative would improve the performance of Federal programs, and is
an effort that is critical to restoring government's public credibility. Senator Roth
has long been a leader in submitting legislation in this area and I think that S. 20,
which is the result ofour work together on the Committee, will help bring a more
meaningful and effective approach to the role and responsibilities of government.
