Table Of ContentFUNCTIONS OF THE INTERSTATE COMMERCE
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COMMISSION
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Functions of the Interstate Connerc. ..fore the
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COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC WORKS AND
TRANSPORTATION
AND THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND
HAZARDOUS MATERIALS
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED THIRD CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
JUNE 9, 1994
(103-55)
(Committee on Public Works and Transportation)
Serial No. 103-111
(Committee on Energy and Commerce)
Printed for the use of the Committee on Public Works and Transportation and
the Conunittee on Energy and Commerce
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
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82-618CC WASHINGTON : 1994 /
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FUNCTIONS OF THE INTERSTATE COMMERCE
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COMMISSION
Y 4 P 96/11:103-55 HEARING
Functions of the Interstate Connerc. ..fore the
oui^^mviiViiiiiLr. uiN ;SURFACE TRANSPORTATION
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC WORKS AND
TRANSPORTATION
I
AND THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND
HAZARDOUS MATERIALS
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED THIRD CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
JUNE 9, 1994
(103-55)
(Committee on Public Works and Transportation)
Serial No. 103-111
(Committee on Energy and Commerce)
Printed for the use of the Committee on Public Works and Transportation and
the Committee on Energy and Commerce
L'*-t.-/,'^'^TiQS^'^'^'^'yS
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE "^ '^S^
82-618CC WASHINGTON : 1994
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ISBN 0-16-044896-4
COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC WORKS AND TRANSPORTATION
NORMAN Y. MINETA. California, Chair
JAMES L. OBERSTAR, Minnesota BUD SHUSTER, Pennsylvania
NICKJ. RAHALL II, West Virginia WILLIAM F. CLINGER, Jr., Pennsylvania
DOUGLAS APPLEGATE. Ohio THOMAS E. PETRI, Wisconsin
RON DE LUGO, Virgin Islands SHERWOOD L. BOEHLERT, NewYork
ROBERT A. BORSKI, Pennsylvania JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma
TIM VALENTINE, North CaroUna BILL EMERSON, Missouri
WILLIAM O. LIPINSKI, IlUnois JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee
ROBERT E. WISE, Jr., WestVirginia SUSAN MOLINARI. New York
JJPAAEMMTEEERSSAAA. DTHeRAFAYAFEZISIC,OA,LNoTOu,riesJgirao.nn,aOhio WTWIHALOYLMNIAEASMT.WH..GIEZLEWCLIHINRFGFE,,STIJ,lrl.i,MnoaNirseywlaHnadmpshire
BOB CLEMENT, Tennessee JENNIFER DUNN, Washington
JERRY F. COSTELLO, Illinois Y. TIM HUTCHINSON, Arkansas
MIKE PARKER, Mississippi BILL BAKER, California
GREG LAUGHLIN, Texas MICHAEL A. "MAC" COLLINS, Georgia
PETE GEREN, Texas JAY KIM, California
GEORGE E. SANGMEISTER, Illinois DAVID A. LEVY, New York
GLENN POSHARD, Illinois STEPHEN HORN, California
DICK SWETT, New Hampshire BOB FRANKS, New Jersey
BUD CRAMER, Alabama PETER I. BLUTE, Massachusetts
BARBARA-ROSE COLLINS, Michigan HOWARD P. "BUCK" McKEON, California
ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of JOHN L. MICA, Florida
Columbia PETER HOEKSTRA, Michigan
LUCIEN E. BLACKWELL, Pennsylvania JACK QUINN, New York
JERROLD NADLER, NewYork VERNON J. EHLERS, Michigan
SAM COPPERSMITH, Arizona
LESLIE L. BYRNE, Virginia
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
PAT DANNER, Missouri
KAREN SHEPHERD, Utah
ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey
JAMES E. CLYBURN, South Carolina
CORRINE BROWN, Florida
NATHAN DEAL, Georgia
JAMES A BARCIA, Michigan
DAN HAMBURG, California
BOB FILNER, CaUfomia
WALTER R. TUCKER III, California
EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas
PETER W. BARCA, Wisconsin
Subcommittee on Surface Transportation
NICKJ. RAHALL II, West Virginia, Chair
TIM VALENTINE, North CaroUna, THOMAS E. PETRI, Wisconsin
Vice Chair WILLIAM F. CLINGER, Jr., Pennsylvania
BOB CLEMENT, Tennessee BILL EMERSON, Missouri
JERRY F. COSTELLO, Illinois WILLIAM H. ZELIFF, Jr., New Hampshire
GREG LAUGHLIN, Texas JENNIFER DUNN, Washington
GLENN POSHARD, IlUnois Y. TIM HUTCHINSON, Arkansas
DICK SWETT, New Hampshire BILL BAKER, CaUfornia
BUD CRAMER, Alabama MICHAEL A. "MAC" COLLINS, Georgia
PETER A. DeFAZIO, Oregon JAY KIM. CaUfornia
JERROLD NADLER, New York DAVID A. LEVY, New York
LESLIE L. BYRNE, Virginia BOB FRANKS, New Jersey
MPAATRIDAANCNAENRT,WEMLiLss,ouWraishington HPEOTWEARRID. BP.LU"TBEU,CKM"assMaccKhEusOeNt,tsCaUfomia
ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey VERNON J. EHLERS, Michigan
JAMES E. CLYBURN, South CaroUna BUD SHUSTER, Pennsylvania
DAN HAAIBURG, CaUfomia (Ex Officio)
WALTER R. TUCKER III, California
EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas
DOUGLAS APPLEGATE, Ohio
RON DE LUGO, Virgin Islands
WILLIAM O. LIPINSKI, IlUnois
JAMES A. TRAFICANT, Jr., Ohio
PETER W. BARCA, Wisconsin
NORMAN Y. MINETA, CaUfornia
{Ex Officio)
(H)
COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE
JOHN D. DINGELL, Michigan, Chairman
HENRYA. WAXMAN, California CARLOS J. MOORHEAD. California
PHILIP R. SHARP, Indiana THOMAS J. BLILEY, Jr., Virginia
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts JACK FIELDS, Texas
AL SWIFT, Washington MICHAEL G. OXLEY, Ohio
CARDISS COLLINS, Ilhnois MICHAEL BILIRAKIS, Florida
MIKE SYNAR, Oklahoma DAN SCHAEFER, Colorado
W.J. "BILLY" TAUZIN, Louisiana JOE BARTON, Texas
RON WYDEN, Oregon ALEX MCMILLAN, North Carolina
RALPH M. HALL, Texas J. DENNIS HASTERT, Illinois
BILL RICHARDSON, New Mexico FRED UPTON, Michigan
JIM SLATTERY, Kansas CLIFF STEARNS, Florida
JOHN BRYANT, Texas BILL PAXON, New York
RICK BOUCHER, Virginia PAUL E. GILLMOR, Ohio
JIM COOPER, Tennessee SCOTT KLUG, Wisconsin
J. ROY ROWLAND, Georgia GARY A. FRANKS, Connecticut
THOMAS J. MANTON, New York JAMES C. GREENWOOD, Pennsylvania
EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York MICHAEL D. CRAPO, Idaho
GERRY E. STUDDS, Massachusetts
RICHARD H. LEHMAN, California
FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey
CRAIG A. WASHINGTON, Texas
LYNN SCHENK, CaHfomia
SHERROD BROWN, Ohio
MIKE KREIDLER, Washington
MARJORIE MARGOLIES-MEZVINSKY,
Pennsylvania
BLANCHE M. LAMBERT, Arkansas
Alan J. Roth, StaffDirector and ChiefCounsel
Dennis B. Fitzgibbons, Deputy StaffDirector
Margaret A Durbin, Minority ChiefCounsel and StaffDirector
Subcommittee on Transportation and Hazardous Materials
AL SWIFT, Washington, Chairman
BLANCHE M. LAMBERT, Arkansas MICHAEL G. OXLEY, Ohio
W.J. "BILLY" TAUZIN, Louisiana JACK FIELDS, Texas
RICK BOUCHER, Virginia DAN SCHAEFER, Colorado
J. ROY ROWLAND, Georgia FRED UPTON, Michigan
THOMAS J. MANTON, New York BILL PAXON, New York
GERRY E. STUDDS, Massachusetts PAUL E. GILLMOR, Ohio
FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey MICHAEL D. CRAPO, Idaho
LYNN SCHENK, California CARLOS J. MOORHEAD, CaUfomia
PHILIP R. SHARP, Indiana (Ex Officio)
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts
BILL RICHARDSON, New Mexico
JOHN D. DINGELL, Michigan
(Ex Officio)
Arthur P. Endres, Jr., StaffDirectorIChiefCounsel
Scott Cooper, SpecialAssistant
H. Glenn Scammel, Minority Counsel
(III)
CONTENTS
Page
Testimonyof:
Condit, Hon. Gary A., a Representative in Congress from the State of
California 21
DeLay, Hon. Tom, a Representative in Congress fromthe State ofTexas 19
.
Hefley, Hon. Joel, a Representative in Congress from the State of Colo-
rado 11
Jorgenson, Richard A., Resources, Community and Economic Develop-
mentDivision, GeneralAccountingOffice 134
Kasich, Hon. John R., a Representative in Congress from the State of
Ohio 17
Kruesi, Frank E., Assistant Secretary for Transportation Policy, Depart-
mentofTransportation 128
McDonald, Hon. Gail C, Chairman, Interstate Commerce Commission 28
Mead, Kenneth M., Director, Transportation Issues, General Accounting
Office 134
Morgan, Linda, Commissioner, Interstate Commerce Commission 55
Mulvey, Frank, Assistant Director, Transportation Issues, General Ac-
counting Office 134
Phillips, Karen Borlaug, Vice Chairman, Interstate Commerce Commis-
sion 52
Rush, Henri F., General Counsel, Interstate Commerce Commission 28
Sanders, Hon. Bernard, a Representative in Congress from the State
ofVermont 5
Simmons, J.J., III, Commissioner, Interstate Commerce Commission 53
Smith, LeslieA., SeniorAccountant, General AccountingOffice 134
Material submitted forthe recordby:
Interstate Commerce Commission:
Correspondence submitted regardingWall StreetJournal article enti-
tled*'ICC KeepsTruckin" 121
Memorandum datedJune 1, 1994 to Chairman McDonald from Henri
F. Rush re compendium ofICC responsibilities 69
Responses toquestions submittedby:
Hon. Michael G. Oxley 163
Hon. Bernard Sanders 172
Hon. Bud Shuster 66
National Association ofRegulatoryUtility Commissioners: Statement 198
National Coal Association: Statement ofJoseph E. Lima, vice president
fortransportation 208
National Motor Freight Traffic Association, Inc.: Letter dated June 2,
1994 to Chairman Nick J. Rahall, from Martin E. Foley, executive
director 204
National Small Shipments Traffic Conference, Inc., and Health and Per-
sonal Care Distribution Conference, Inc.: Combined statement of
Charles Girardi and CharlesE. Bennett 221
Orange Countv, California Transportation Authority: Comments on study
ofaxleweights ofpublic transitbuses, with attachments 188
Rails toTrails Conservancy: StatementofCharles H. Montange 229
Regular Common Carrier Conference: Statement of James C. Harkins,
executive director 225
Transportation Trades Department, AFL-CIO: Statement of Walter J.
Shea, president 209
(V)
FUNCTIONS OF THE INTERSTATE COMMERCE
COMMISSION
THURSDAY, JUNE 9, 1994
House of Representatives, Committee on Public
Works and Transportation, Subcommittee on Sur-
face Transportation, and Committee on Energy
AND Commerce, Subcommittee on Transportation
AND Hazardous Materials,
Washington, DC.
The joint subcommittees met, pursuant to notice, at 1:35 p.m., in
room 2167, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Nick J. Rahall H
(chairman, Subcommittee on Surface Transportation) and Hon. Al
Swift (chairman. Subcommittee on Transportation and Hazardous
Materials) presiding.
Mr. Rahall. The subcommittees will come to order, please. The
Subcommittees on Surface Transportation of the Committee on
Public Works and Transportation and the Subcommittee on Trans-
portation and Hazardous Materials of the Committee on Energy
and Commerce are conducting a joint hearing today on the general
functions ofthe Interstate Commerce Commission [ICC].
I will now recognize our good friend and distinguished colleague,
the chairman of the Subcommittee on Transportation and Hazard-
ous Materials, the gentleman from Washington State, Mr. Al Swift.
Mr. Swift. Thank you very much, Chairman Rahall. It has been
a pleasure to work with you on this joint hearing of the two sub-
committees withjurisdiction over activities ofthe ICC.
This has been a constructive effort which reflects, I think, the
good working relationship between our two full committees. I wel-
come the opportunity to work together to ensure that our Nation's
surface transportation system continue to be appropriately regu-
lated.
In 1980, through the Staggers Rail Act and the Motor Carrier
Act, our respective committees introduced major changes in the
way we traditionally regulated our transportation industries.
Those efforts have proved successful and I believe have been suc-
cessfully mirrored in the subsequent downsizing of the ICC, a 70
percent reduction in staffing in the past 15 years.
But regulation reform has been confused by some as an oppor-
tunity to abandon basic protections for the public, for shippers, for
communities, and for labor, and that brings us to the current at-
tacks on the existence ofthe ICC.
Some have suggested we abolish the ICC and spin its duties off
to other agencies. H.L. Mencken once said, there is always an easy
solution to every human problem, neat, plausible, and wrong.
(1)
I believe that today's testimony from the GAO will clearly show
that shippers and carriers believe that they are best served by an
independent commission, that the quasi judicial and the adjudica-
tory authority of the ICC are more responsive to problems in the
transportation industry than an executive bureaucracy, and that
the independence of the ICC avoids the appearance, and, I suspect,
the reality of political pressures and potential conflicts of interest.
But even if we decided for whatever reason that these attributes
should be sacrificed if we can save the government some money,
the GAO study responds by saying that killing the ICC and trans-
ferring its functions and expertise would, and I quote, "Compromise
the independence ofthe decisionmaking process without generating
meaningful cost savings," end quote.
Killing the ICC will not be neat given the difficulties enumerated
by the GAO testimony, and ifyou study their analysis, it no longer
even has a surface plausibility. Certainly let's use this hearing to
discuss how to improve the functions of our oversight agencies to
reflect rapid and constant change in transportation technologies
and in economics.
That is what our subcommittees do and we should carefully scru-
tinize the activities of the ICC, as we do any other agency or de-
partment. But let's not fool ourselves or the public that there is an
easy way out of this or any other problem. It is intellectually dis-
honest, procedurally lazy and to quote Mencken again, it is wrong.
I yield back the balance ofmy time.
Mr. Rahall. Thank you. Chairman Swift. The interest of the
Subcommittee on Surface Transportation as it relates to the ICC
primarily concerns the Commission's remaining jurisdiction over
the motor carrier industry.
While the Motor Carrier Act of 1980 did indeed reduce the Com-
mission's role in regulating the industry, the ICC retains some
basic and essential functions, including enforcement of the filed
rate doctrine and the issuance ofoperating permits.
One of the purposes of this hearing is to determine whether or
not it is in the public interest to maintain these functions under
the auspices of an independent regulatory Agency, the ICC, or
transfer them to an Agency such as the Department of Transpor-
tation.
Several of our colleagues from whom we will hear this afternoon,
John Kasich, Joel Hefley, Tom DeLay, and Gary Condit, in particu-
lar, are seeking to sunset the ICC and facilitate the transfer of its
responsibilities to the DOT.
In this regard, we have pending before the subcommittee several
bills, including H.R. 3127, submitted by Mr. Kasich. Today we will
examine their proposal, but we will do so only in terms ofwhether
or not it would reduce the Federal budget deficit.
The public interest in this matter transcends the budgetary situ-
ation. Therefore, we will also investigate whether the transfer of
the ICC's responsibilities would impede or enhance the effective ad-
ministration ofits regulatory consumer protection mandates.
I now recognize our ranking minority member, the gentleman
from Wisconsin, Mr. Petri.
Mr. Petri. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
