Table Of ContentFBI AND DEA: MERGER OR ENHANCED
COOPERATION?
JOINT HEARING
BEFORETHE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
CML AND CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS
ANDTHE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
CRIME AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE
OFTHE
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIAKY
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED THIRD CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
i
Q
82-964
T H •0 // I /'^-V
FBI AND DEA: MERGER OR ENHANCED
COOPERATION?
JOINT HEARING
BEFORETHE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
CIVIL AND CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS
ANDTHE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
CRIME AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE
OFTHE
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED THIRD CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
Q
SEPTEMBER 29, 1993 I
iU
>
Serial No. 60
Printed for the use ofthe Committee on t^e Judiciary
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFltE
82-964 WASHINGTON : ImT
ForsalebytheU.S.GovernmentPrintingOffice
SuperintendentofDocuments,CongressionalSalesOffice,Washington,DC 20402
ISBN 0-16-046335-1
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
JACKBROOKS,Texas,Chairman
DONEDWARDS,California HAMILTONFISH,Jr.,NewYork
JOHNCONYERS,Jr.,Michigan CARLOSJ. MOORHEAD, California
ROMANOL.MAZZOLI,Kentucky HENRYJ. HYDE,Illinois
WILLIAMJ. HUGHES,NewJersey F.JAMESSENSENBRENNER,Jr.,
MIKE SYNAR, Oklahoma Wisconsin
PATRICIASCHROEDER, Colorado BILLMcCOLLUM,Florida
DANGLICKMAN,Kansas GEORGE W.GEKAS,Pennsylvania
BARNEYFRANK,Massachusetts HOWARDCOBLE,NorthCarolina
CHARLESE.SCHUMER,NewYork LAMARS. SMITH,Texas
HOWARDL. BERMAN, California STEVENSCHIFF,NewMexico
RICKBOUCHER,Virginia JIMRAMSTAD, Minnesota
JOHNBRYANT,Texas ELTONGALLEGLY,CaUfornia
GEORGE E. SANGMEISTER, Illinois CHARLEST.CANADY,Florida
CRAIGA.WASHINGTON,Texas BOBINGLIS,SouthCaroUna
JACKREED,Rhode Island BOBGOODLATTE,Virginia
JERROLDNADLER,NewYork
ROBERTC. SCOTT,Virginia
DAVIDMANN,Ohio
MELVINL.WATT,NorthCaroUna
XAVIERBECERRA,California
JonathanR.Yarowsky,GeneralCounsel
RobertA. Lembo,Counsel/Administrator
AlanF. Coffey,Jr.,MinorityChiefCounsel
Subcommittee on Civiland ConstitutionalRights
DONEDWARDS,California,Chairman
PATRICIASCHROEDER, Colorado HENRYJ. HYDE, IlUnois
BARNEYFRANK,Massachusetts HOWARDCOBLE,NorthCaroUna
CRAIGA.WASHINGTON,Texas CHARLEST.CANADY,Florida
JERROLDNADLER,NewYork
CatherineLeRoy,Counsel
IvyDavis-Fox,AssistantCounsel
JamesX. Dempsey,AssistantCounsel
VirginiaSloan,AssistantCounsel
MelodyBarnes,AssistantCounsel
Kathryna. Hazeem,MinorityCounsel
SUBdOMMITTEE ON CRIMEAND CRIMINALJUSTICE
'
CHARLESE.SCHUMER,NewYork,Chairman \
DONEDWARDS,CaUforma F.JAMESSENSENBRENNER,Jr.,
JOHNCONYERS,Jr.,Michigan Wisconsin
ROMANOL. MAZZOLI, Kentucky LAMARS. SMITH,Texas I
DANGLICKMAN, Kansas STEVENSCHIFF,NewMexico
GEORGE E. SANGMEISTER,IlUnois JIMRAMSTAD,Minnesota
CRAIGA. WASHINGTON,Texas GEORGE W. GEKAS,Pennsylvania
DAVIDMANN, Ohio
AndrewFois,Counsel
DavidYassky,AssistantCounsel
PaulBeaulieu,AssistantCounsel
GabrielleGallegos,AssistantCounsel
LyleNirenberg,MinorityCounsel
(II)
CONTENTS
HEARING DATE
Page
September29, 1993 1
OPENING STATEMENTS
Edwards, Hon. Don, a Representative in Congress from the State of
California, andchairman.SubcommitteeonCivilandConstitutionalRights 1
Schumer, Hon. Charles E., a Representative in Congress from the State
ofNewYork,andChairman,SubcommitteeonCrimeandCriminalJustice 3
WITNESSES
Bensinger, Peter, president and CEO, Bensinger, DuPont & Associates,
Chicago,IL,andformerAdministrator,DrugEnforcementAdministration .. 120
Boyum, DavidA., adjunctlecturerin public policy. HarvardUniversity,John
FA.nalKyesninseCdoyrp.S,chCoaomlbroifdGgoev,eMrnAment, and senior research analyst, BOTEC 124
Heymann,PhilipB.,DeputyAttorneyGeneral,U.S. DepartmentofJustice .... 21
Hughes, Hon. William J., a Representative in Congress from the State of
NewJersey 8
Lee, Rennsselaer W., Ill, president, Global Advisory Services, Alexandria,
VA 115
Malman,MylesH.,formerU.S. attorney.SouthernDistrictofFlorida 91
Oboyski, Victor G., national president. Federal Law Enforcement Officers
Association 74
Rangel, Hon. Charles B., a Representative in Congress from the State of
NewYork 13
Scully, Robert, executive director. National Association of Police Organiza-
tions 83
Silbering,RobertH., specialnarcoticsprosecutor.NewYorkCity 105
LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING
Bensinger, Peter, president and CEO, Bensinger, DuPont & Associates,
Chicago, IL, and formerAdministrator, DrugEnforcementAdministration:
Preparedstatement 122
Boyum, DavidA., adjunctlecturerin public policy. HarvardUniversity,John
Arn.alKyesninseCdoyrp.S,chCoaomlbroifdGgoev,eMrAnm:enPrte,paarneddssetnaitoermernetsearch analyst, BOTEC 126
Heymann, Philip B., Deputy Attorney General, U.S. Department ofJustice:
Preparedstatement 29
Hyde,Hon. HenryJ., aRepresentative in Congress fromtheStateofIllinois:
Preparedstatement 140
Kleiman, Mark A.R., associate professor, Kennedy School, a research fellow,
criminaljusticepolicyandmanagement,andpresidentofBOTECAnalysis:
Preparedstatement 126
Lee, Rennsselaer W., Ill, president, Global Advisory Services, Alexandria,
VA:Preparedstatement 117
Malman, Myles H., former U.S. attorney. Southern District ofFlorida: Pre-
paredstatement 94
Oboyski, Victor G., national president, Federal Law Enforcement Officers
Association:Preparedstatement 77
Ramstad, Hon. Jim, a Representative in Congress from the State of
Minnesota:Preparedstatement 136
(III)
IV
Page
Rangel, Hon. Charles B., a Representative in Congress from the State of
NewYork:Preparedstatement 17
Scully, Robert, executive director, National Association of Police Organiza-
tions:Preparedstatement 85
Silbering, Robert H., special narcotics prosecutor, New York City: Prepared
statement 107
APPENDIX
Materialsubmittedforthehearing 143
FBI AND DEA: MERGER OR ENHANCED
COOPERATION?
WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 29, 1993
House of Representatives, Subcommittee on Civil
AND Constitutional Rights, and Subcommittee on
Crime and Criminal Justice, Committee on the Ju-
diciary,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittees met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room
2141, Raybum House Office Building, Hon. Don Edwards (chair-
man ofthe Subcommittee on Civil and Constitutional Rights) pre-
siding.
Members present from the Subcommittee on Civil and Constitu-
tional Rights: Representatives Don Edwards, Patricia Schroeder,
Barney Frank, Craig A. Washington, Howard Coble, and Charles
T. Canady.
Members present from the Subcommittee on Crime and Criminal
Justice: Representatives Charles E. Schumer (chairman ofthe sub-
committee), Don Edwards, CraigA. Washington, John Conyers, Jr.,
David Mann, F. James Sensenbrenner, Jr., Steven Schiff, and
GeorgeW. Gekas.
Staffpresent from the Subcommittee on Civil and Constitutional
Rights: Catherine LeRoy, counsel; James Dempsey, assistant coun-
sel; and Kathryn Hazeem, minoritycounsel.
Staff present from the Subcommittee on Crime and Criminal
Justice: Andrew Fois, counsel; Daniel Cunningham, assistant coun-
sel; Rachel Jacobson, secretary; and Lyle Nirenberg, minority coun-
sel.
OPENINGSTATEMENTOFCHAmMANEDWARDS
Mr. Edwards. The hearing to be held by two subcommittees of
the House Judiciary Committee, the Subommittee on Crime and
Criminal Justice, and the Subcommittee on Civil and Constitu-
tional Rights, will cometo order.
We are going to look at the subject of the suggested merger of
the FBI and the Drug Enforcement Administration today. It is a
subjectthatis goingto need considerable study.
I personally have some problems with it and I hope that they
will be aired by our expert witnesses. Itjust seems to me person-
ally, at a time when we have a new administration, with a new Di-
rector ofthe FBI, a new Attorney General, that it would be asking
quite a lotto undertake such a massive step as thiskind ofa merg-
er.
(1)
However, we want to hear all the evidence and talk to our
friends in the administration about it. We have an excellent wit-
ness today from the administration, the Deputy Attorney General.
Mr. Sensenbrenner.
Mr. Sensenbrenner. Thankyouverymuch, Mr. Chairmgin.
First, let me ask unanimous consent, pursuant to committee rule
5, that this hearing be broadcast, televised or available for still
photography.
Mr. Edwards. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Sensenbrenner. Mr. Chairman, on September 7, the Vice
President ofthe United States, Al Gore, releasedhis outline ofhow
to make our Government work more efficiently and to give the tax-
payers more for their money, in a report entitled: "Creating a Gov-
ernmentThatWorks Better and Costs Less."
This is the first major hearing on a proposal within the Gore
Commission's recommendations. And that is whether the FBI and
the DrugEnforcementAdministration shouldbe merged.
I support that,just as I did 11 years agowhen the Subcommittee
on Civil and Constitutional Rights held ahearing on the same sub-
ject, when the proposal was made by the Reagan administration.
I believe thatthis mergermakes sensefor anumber ofreasons.
First, through merging these agencies, we will be reducing the
amount of money that is spent on the triplicate administration,
thus freeing up our scarce tax dollars for more actual law enforce-
ment. I think one ofthe reasons why the American people are so
ticked off at the unresponsiveness oftheir Government is the fact
that there always seems to be an excuse why not to do something.
And we seem to be spending more and more ofour tax dollars hir-
ing bureaucrats to push pencils, rather than to actually get thejob
done fortheAmerican taxpayer.
This merger, in myopinion, willreduce the percentage ofourlaw
enforcement dollars used for administration, and allow more Fed-
eral agents to be out on the street investigating organized crime,
drug abuse, and all of the other violations of Federal law which
have made our society soviolent as oflate.
Second, through the merger, there will be the administrative
flexibility in the hands of our new Director of the FBI to shift
agents from one area to the other or back, depending upon what
the needs are. We canhave amuchless compartmentailized law en-
forcement function, so that ifthere is more ofa need to investigate
and go after drug pushers, the FBI Director will be able to do that
byreducingthe numberofagents in some otherfunction.
Similarly, if organized crime is the problem, we can put more
agents in that. That can't be done under the current fragmented
law enforcementfunction.
Finsdly, I think thatthis merger makes sense because it answers
the questions the American public has on why the FBI doesn't im-
mediately get involved. I remember earlier this year when a hear-
ing was held on the World Trade Center bombing. People were
wondering why the Bureau ofAlcohol, Tobacco and Firearms was
theleadlaw enforcement agency.
A couple years ago when I served as the ranking member on Mr.
Edwards' subcommittee, when we investigated arsons and bomb-
ings at abortion clinics, similar questions were raised on why the
BATF were the folks that showed their face first, rather than the
FBI, which everybody reco—gnizes is our Nation's premier law en-
forcement agency. That is the reason for both of these appear-
ances of the BATF, was incendiary and bombing devices are the
primary investigativejurisdiction ofthe Bureau ofAlcohol, Tobacco
and Firearms.
These kinds ofproblems would be eliminated under the merger
that has been proposed by the Vice President and which I hope the
Congress will endorse.
Now it disappoints me greatly that the witness list ofthis initial
hearing, and to myknowledge it is the first on the Vice President's
recommendation, seems to be stacked in favor ofthe opponents of
these mergers. Now, while I recognize that there is turfto be pro-
tected and people have developed friendly relations with those who
are in administrative functions in all ofthese various agencies, the
American public is askingformore bangforthe buck.
I would hope that my Democratic fi*iends, who I would have
hoped would have been a little bit more supportive of the Vice
President oftheirown party, would be alittle bit more sympathetic
to what is being proposed in Vice President Gore's report. Because
I hope thatthis reportwill not meetthe same outcome as the Com-
mission report thatwas headed by Peter Grace, who was appointed
by President Reagantolookintoways to save money, met.
So thank you very much. And I hope that my fi*iends on the
other side ofthe aislewill notbe apostles ofgridlock and opponents
of change, because I know that our Vice President would be dis-
appointed in that.
Mr. Edwards. Thankyou, Mr. Sensenbrenner.
The hearingwill be chairedjointlyby me, as the chairman ofthe
Subcommittee on Civil and Constitutional Rights, and by our dis-
tinguished friend from New York, Mr. Schumer, the chairman of
the Subcommittee on Crime and CriminalJustice.
Mr. Schumer.
OPENINGSTATEMENTOFCHAIRMANSCHUMER
Mr. Schumer. Thankyou. Itis apleasure tohave ajointhearing
withyou on this issue.
The topic ofthis hearing is to consider whether our two premier
drugfighting agencies, the DEAand FBI, should be merged.
I know ofno more serious question in the war on drugs. Drugs
and drugtraffickinginflict enormous sufferingon millions ofAmer-
icans and fuel violent crime that scars every town, city, and county
in America. Ifwe are going to fight this plague, we better be sure
that we know what we are doing, and better be sure that we are
doingitright.
And in reference to my colleague, the new defender ofthe admin-
istration, Mr. Sensenbrenner, I hope thatlasts for awhile.
In any case, I have a great deal ofrespect for the Vice President
and the National Performance Review that recommended the
changes. The American people want a government that works bet-
ter and costs less and many ofhis recommendations will get a big-
ger bangforthe taxpayers' buck.
However, not all ofit is going to be right. And this is one ofthe
areas where Ihave grave doubts. Given the DEA's record ofsuccess
in fighting drug crime, it seems to me that the burden ofproofis
onthosewhofavorthe merger.
Our present structure didn't happen by chance. It didn't happen
overnight. It was built over years of experience and thoughtful
change and cooperation between Congress and the executive
branch. Anyone who knows the history knows that it has been in
one agency, then put in a separate agency, then put back withvar-
ious memos, the last one by William French Smith, late Attorney
General in 1982, that then divided the re^onsibilities once again.
I have searched around. I have talked on the record to people in
the DEA and the FBI, at all levels. And I must tell my colleagues,
and I have told this to the Vice President himself, that the over-
whelming weight of informed professional opinion is against the
merger.
Over the past weeks, the subcommittee staffwent and talked to
more people, including, as I said, DEAand FBI people, neutralpeo-
ple, prosecutors, diplomats, top-ranked scholars. Theverdict among
them wasn'teven close. Theygenerally, withcertain exceptions, ob-
viouslythoughtthe mergerwas abadidea.
Let me go over the reasons why. We will hear some ofthis from
ourwitnessestoday.
First and foremost, the merger would wipe out the only Federal
law enforcement agency focused exclusively on fighting drugs. The
issue is one offocus. It would reduce that specialized agency to 1
of 10 or so divisions within the FBI. As a division within the FBI,
it would have to compete for funds, personnel, and resources with
otherFBI programs.
Fighting drugs must be a national priority forthe foreseeable fu-
ture. The FBI justifiably has many priorities, and we have seen
those priorities shift over the years. Agents, hundreds of agents,
are lifted from one area to the other, depending on the needs of
the moment, whether it be white-collar crime, gangs, or
counterterrorism.
My concernis that inthe nextyear ortheyearbeyond, thosepri-
orities will change again and overwhelm the drug program. To me
at least, fighting drugs is so crucial that whether the merger goes
forward or not, we have to find a way to insulate the people who
spend the long hours and the painstakingtime fighting drugs from
the shifts inthosevicissitudes.
Second, the merger would erase the DEA's distinct drug inves-
tigation techniques and operating culture, which has been built
over years of experience. DEA personnel and operations are dif-
ferent from those ofthe FBI, and they would be forced to conform
in a merger. This is not simply a matter of style. I know the talk
about"cowboys" against"blue suits."
The DEA's distinctive expertise andway ofdoingthings have de-
veloped preciselybecause they got results in the drugenvironment.
I questionthewisdom ofeliminatingthatresource.
Third, the merger could cripple drug fighting efforts overseas.
The DEA has earned the trust of foreign governments. At the
height ofthe coldwar, DEAagentsworkedinside theformer Soviet
Union and the People's Republic ofChina.
Today, although the United States has no diplomatic relations
with Burma, the DEA has an office there. And that is because for-
