Table Of Content.
PROGRAMS
EDUCATIONAL
^
Y 4. V 64/3: 103-43
Education Prograns, Serial Ko. 103-.
.
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
EDUCATION, TRAINING AND EMPL0Y:\IENT
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED THIRD CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
MARCH 10, 1994
Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
Serial No. 103^3
'^^^T«*«»,
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
85-716CC WASHINGTON : 1995
ForsalebytheU.S.GovernmentPrintingOffice
SuperintendentofDocuments,CongressionalSalesOffice,Washington,DC 20402
ISBN 0-16-046529-X
.
EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS
y
4. V 64/3; 103-43
Jation Progransi Serial No. 103-..
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
EDUCATION, TRAINING AND EMPLOY]\IENT
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED THIRD CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
MARCH 10, 1994
Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
Serial No. 103-43
/ ^Itii'
MAlf g
^
^Hm
i2!btn.
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
85-716CC WASHINGTON : 1995
ForsalebytheU.S.GovernmentPrintingOffice
SuperintendentofDocuments,CongressionalSalesOffice,Washington,DC 20402
ISBN 0-16-046529-X
COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
G.V. (SONNY) MONTGOMERY, MissisBippi, Chairman
DON EDWARDS, California BOB STUMP, Arizona
DOUGLAS APPLEGATE, Ohio CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
LANE EVANS, Illinois DAN BURTON, Indiana
TIMOTHYJ. PENNY, Minnesota MICHAEL BILIRAKIS, Florida
J. ROY ROWLAND, Georgia THOMAS J. RIDGE, Pennsylvania
JIM SLATTERY, Kansas FLOYD SPENCE, South Carolina
JOSEPH P. KENNEDY, II, Massachusetts TIM HUTCHINSON, Arkansas
GEORGE E. SANGMEISTER, Illinois TERRY EVERETT, Alabama
JILL L. LONG, Indiana STEVE BUYER, Indiana
CHET EDWARDS, Texas JACK QUINN, New York
MAXINE WATERS, California SPENCER BACHUS, Alabama
BOB CLEMENT, Tennessee JOHN LINDER, Georgia
BOB FILNER, California CLIFF STEARNS, Florida
FRANK TEJEDA, Texas PETER T. KING, New York
LUIS V. GUTIERREZ, lUinois
SCOTTY BAESLER, Kentucky
SANFORD BISHOP, Georgia
JAMES E. CLYBURN, South Carolina
MIKE KREIDLER, Washington
CORRINE BROWN, Florida
Mack G. Fleming, StaffDirectorand ChiefCounsel
SUBCOMMITTEE ON EDUCATION, TRAINING AND EMPLOYMENT
G.V. (SONNY) MONTGOMERY, Mississippi, Chairman
TIMOTHYJ. PENNY, Minnesota TIM HUTCHINSON, Arkansas
JAMES E. CLYBURN, South Carolina BOB STUMP, Arizona
J. ROY ROWLAND, Georgia^ THOMAS J. RIDGE, Pennsylvania
JIM SLATTERYrKansas JACK QUINN, New York
BOB CILEMEI^^^.Tennessee
(II)
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CONTENTS
Page
OPENING STATEMENTS
Chairman Montgomery 1
Hon. Tim Hutchinson 2
Hon. TimothyJ. Penny 3
Hon. Jack Quinn 3
WITNESSES
Alexander, Lt. Gen. Robert M., USAF, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Mili-
tary Personnel Policy, DepartmentofDefense 9
Prepared statementofGeneralAlexander 45
Ames, Capt. Fred, representing the U.S. CoastGuard 19
Prepared statementofCaptainAmes 84
Boles, Lt. Gen. Billy, Deputy ChiefofStaff, Personnel, U.S. AirForce 19
Prepared statementofGeneral Boles 80
Brinck, Mike, National Legislative Director, AMVETS 28
Prepared statement ofMr. Brinck 86
Carney, Lt. Gen. Thomas P., Deputy ChiefofStafffor Personnel, U.S. Army .. 19
Prepared statementofGeneral Carney 66
Cullinan, Dennis M., Deputy Director, National Legislative Service, Veterans
ofForeignWars 30
Prepared statement ofMr. Cullinan 95
Egan, Paul S., Executive Director, Vietnam Veterans ofAmerica 31
Prepared statementofMr. Egan 98
HoUingsworth, Kimo, Assistant Director, National Legislative Commission,
TheAmerican Legion 29
Prepared statementofMr. HoUingsworth 90
Johnston, Lt. Gen. Robert, Deputy ChiefofStafffor Manpower and Reserve
Affairs, U.S. Marine Corps 19
Prepared statement ofGeneralJohnston 76
Rhea, Larry E., Deputy Director of Legislative Affairs, NonCommissioned
OfficersAssociation 32
Prepared statementofMr. Rhea 106
Rush, Frank, Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary for Reserve Affairs (Man-
power and Personnel) DepartmentofDefense 11
Prepared statementofMr. Rush 53
Vogel, R.J., Under Secretary for Benefits, Department of Veterans Affairs,
accompanied by Celia P. DoUarhide, Director, Education Service; and Dean
E. Gallin, DeputyAssistantGeneral Counsel 5
Prepared statementofMr. Vogel 37
Zlatoper, Vice Adm. R.J., Deputy Chief of Naval Operations for Manpower
and Personnel and ChiefofNaval Personnel, U.S. Navy 19
Prepared statementofAdmiral Zlatoper 71
MATERIAL SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
Statement:
Ronald W. Drach, National Employment Director, Disabled American
Veterans 113
(III)
Written committee questions and their responses:
Chairman Montgomery to:
DepartmentofVeterans Affairs 116
DepartmentofDefense 120, 165
U.S. Army 168
U.S. Navy 180
U.S. Marine Corps 184
U.S. AirForce 199
U.S. Coast Guard 203
Department ofLabor 215
Congressman Evans to DepartmentofVeteransAffairs 124
Congressman Sangmeisterto DepartmentofVeteransAffairs 129
Congressman Slattery toDepartmentofVeteransAffairs 131
Congresswoman Brown to DepartmentofVeteransAffairs 132
Congressman Stump to DepartmentofVeteransAffairs 146
Congressman Stearns to DepartmentofVeteransAffairs 162
EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS
THURSDAY, MARCH 10, 1994
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Education,
Training and Employment,
Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 9:30 a.m., in room
334, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. G.V. (Sonny) Montgomery
(chairman ofthe subcommittee), presiding.
Present: Representatives Montgomery, Hutchinson, Penny, and
Quinn.
OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAHIMAN MONTGOMERY
Mr. Montgomery. Since it's so quiet here this morning, we'll
just start on time. We have some distinguished witnesses today,
and we want to move right along. So the subcommittee will be in
order.
On June 22, 1994, we will mark an important event, the 50th an-
niversary of the enactment of the Servicemen's Readjustment Act
of 1944, popularly known as the GI Bill of Rights. The signing of
that legislation demonstrated our nation's gratitude for the sac-
rifices made by those who serve in the Armed Forces and estab-
lished the foundation for many of the veterans' rights and benefits
that we provide today, including veterans' preference in Federal
employment, the home loan program, employment assistance and,
of particular interest to us this morning, educational assistance
benefits.
As I said, this is the 50th anniversary of the GI Bill of Rights,
which, as I imderstand it, was written at the Willard Hotel in
1944. This program has a very interesting history.
Now we are looking forward to the 50th anniversary. I'll head a
delegation fi-om the House of Representatives going to Normandy
in early June tojoin the celebration.
The GI Bill actually was implemented before our soldiers got
home, which was good. They got back in 1945 to 1946, and this
program was waiting for them.
The implementation of the World War II GI Bill resulted in pro-
found changes throughout American society. In fact, those who
write the history will probably conclude the GI Bill of Rights was
the most important piece oflegislation enacted and implemented in
this century. The GI Bill will be judged the top piece of legislation
that helped people in this country.
(1)
Because the opportunity for higher education was no longer re-
stricted to the affluent upper classes, college enrollment went up.
Prior to the GI Bill, most Americans didn't go to college.
We're particularly interested this morning in the newest GI Bill.
Since its implementation in 1985, the Montgomery GI Bill has
proven to be an effective readjustment benefit, enabling hundreds
ofthousands ofveterans to continue their education following mili-
tary service. The GI Bill has also been a powerful recruiting and
retention tool for the Armed Forces. We hope and I believe we will
hear this morning fi*om our military personnel how much the GI
Bill has helped attract smart, young men and women into the serv-
ices. That's what we need to have a good strong defense.
The chair recognizes the ranking minority member of the sub-
committee, Tim Hutchinson ofArkamsas.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. TEM HUTCHINSON
Mr. Hutchinson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to, first of
all, thank you for calling this meeting of the Veterans Affairs Sub-
committee on Education, Training and Employment to receive tes-
timony on veterans' education assistance programs administered by
the Department ofVeterans Affairs.
A great many of those in the Armed Forces, as well as through-
out the nation, have been beneficiaries of the GI Bill. And, as the
nation approaches the 50th anniversary of the GI Bill of Rights, I
think it is important for us to reiterate the value of being able to
access educational opportunities and that it is truly an important
investment for our society.
The Montgomery GI Bill has successfully led to the enhanced
education of over a half million of this country's citizens and has
been especially helpful in these recent years, when there's been a
propensity not to enlist in the military. I have seen this in the last
year.
I certainly don't have the historic perspective that you do, Mr.
Chairman, but have certainly seen during this first year on the
Veterans' Affairs Committee the critical importance of the Mont-
gomery GI Bill in recruiting for our Armed Forces. And that is
going to be all the more important, I think, in the years to come.
The Montgomery GI Bill has been the primary recruitment in-
centive and is one of our country's most valuable tools in helping
to maintain our commitment to meet the educational needs of our
military members who return to civilian life.
Certainly the Montgomery GI Bill should continue to be a strong
incentive for young people to join the military. And in this connec-
tion, I look forward to hearing your views and assessments of this
important program.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Montgomery. Thank you very much, Tim, and also Tim
Penny, for being here this morning. Tim, do you want to make any
comments? After that. Jack Quinn of New York will be recognized.
I appreciate your being here.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. TIMOTHY PENNY
J.
Mr. Penny. Mr. Montgomery, I, too, am an enthusiast about the
GI Bill and the success of this program. We want to make sure
that it continues to serve our military personnel far into the future.
I understand the need for periodic review because the benefits of
this program are going to be stretched thin as education costs con-
tinue to climb. And, yet, as you know, we have to take a pay as
you go approach to any adjustments in this program in the future.
But, in fairness to our veteran, we want to keep apace ofthe needs
in this program and be as helpful and as generous as we can afford
to be.
With that, Mr. Chairman, I have no other remarks except to
compliment you for your leadership on this committee. And, as
someone who had the privilege of chairing this particular sub-
committee for a few years, I'm glad to see that it's in your hands
now.
I know that these are issues that will be well attended to as long
as you serve in this Congress.
Mr. Montgomery. The Montgomery GI Bill has been a success.
You were very active and showed a lot of interest in the program
when you were chairman ofthis subcommittee. This major program
has had few problems and been updated, thanks to you.
Jack, do you have any comments?
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JACK QUINN
Mr, QuiNN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have some prepared re-
marks that I'll offer for the record, but I want to make a couple
ofpoints. Mr. Chairman, the Montgomery GI Bill I have seen work
firsthand: indeed, two neighbors of mine, young men, Bill Gang
and J—ack Gang, 94 average students in high school and three-sport
stars these two brothers are now members ofour military service.
And it has worked. They were attracted because ofthis very pro-
gram. So even before I came to the Congress, I have seen it work.
And I want to thank you and the subcommittee and the full com-
mittee for making sure that it works.
Also, you mentioned, Mr. Chairman, in your opening remarks
you will be leading a delegation to Normandy in observance ofJune
6th. In a related program that we're working on in Buffalo, New
York, the P.T. Phone Home program for our Buffalo VA Hospital,
we have a target date of having the phones installed for June 6th.
I would like nothing better than to be able to ring you up in Nor-
mandy when that first phone call is made from the Buffalo VA
Hospital and make that call on the anniversary of that very, very
important date. So we'll work with you over the coming months.
[The prepared statement ofCongressman Quinn follows:]
Prepared statementof Hon. Jack Quinn
Thank you Mr. Chairman. I am very pleased to be here this morning to have the
opportunity to discuss the Montgomery GI Bill and veterans education assistance
programs.
As we prepare to mark the 50th anniversary ofthe GI Bill, it is important to rec-
ognize how much of a difference the benefits made in the lives ofso many ofour
veterans.
Mr. Chairman, education incentives like the Montgomery GI Bill help attract am-
bitious and dedicated recruits to our Armed Forces. Our Armed Forces are of the
—
)
highest cahber. As the testimony here today indicates, the quality ofnew recruits
continues to rise.
I therefore lookforward to the testimony this morningand welcome all ofthewit-
nesses.
Once again, thankyou Mr. Chairman.
Additional remarksforthe record:
Mr. Chairman the Buffalo VA hospital expects to initiate the P.T. Phone Home
program by June 6th. I would like nothing better than to call you long distance in
Normandy to start offthe service, as you lead our Congressional delegation for the
anniversary.
Mr. Montgomery. That would be great. We would love to put it
together. We'll be on Normandy, and we'll be 6 hours ahead ofyou,
but (Laughter.
Mr. QuiNN. Well, ifyou receive a
Mr. Montgomery. However you work it out would be fine. It
would add to our visit to hear from you, and we look forward to
it.
To our witnesses today, you've done a good job encouraging new
recruits to enroll in the GI Bill. The Army in January 1994 had 95
percent acceptance. Navy 90 percent, Air Force 91 percent, and the
Marine Corps, 92 percent. So it's holding up well.
For the record, under the MGIB Active Duty participants agree
to a $1,200 basic pay reduction. This pay reduction has returned
over $1 billion to the U.S. Treasury.
Additionally, we have paid out $1.8 billion in education benefits
under the MGIB. That's good and I wish it could be more. Under
the National Guard/Reserve Program, Chapter 106, we've paid out
$656 miUion in benefits. That's a total of$2,538 billion. I know I'm
confusing you. But, in all, the $100 a month, even helping out on
the National Guard and Reserve and on the kickers, has been $2
billion. So since 1994, the educational benefits have only cost the
taxpayers less than $500 million, and that doesn't include the in-
terest that we should have been drawing on this money that the
Government would have had to pay the interest on it to somebody.
And that's not included.
So, basically, this program—is costing the taxpayers no money.
And the number of veterans and we wish this would increase
on Chapter 30, 400,000 are using the National Guard, and Reserve
300,000. Maybe I've gone a little long on that, but I thought I'djust
put that for the record.
We would like Mr. Vogel, Under Secretary for Benefits to come
forward, at Department of Veterans Affairs, and Ms. Celia
Dollarhide, Mr. Dean Gallin to come up.
I know you're always good about getting right to the point, Mr.
Vogel. We appreciate that, Mr, Secretary. I want to congratulate
you on being confirmed as Under Secretary, and also to Ms.
Dollarhide to be appointed as Director of the Educational Service.
We've very glad to have you. The chair recognizes the Under
Secretary.
