Table Of ContentLiberty Seated
The E-Gobrecht Collectors Club
2008 Volume4,Issue11
TheElectronicNewsletteroftheLIBERTYSEATEDCOLLECTORSCLUB
Nov2008(Whole#45)
Outpouring over Jim O’Donnell’s Death What’sInsidethisissue?
AuctionNewsbyJim 2
Gray
EmailfromAlKaip: Iconsidered ertySeated. MyBride(Shirley)
JimO'Donnellagood friend of and Ienjoyed much conversation Clashmarksonan1867-S 2
halfdollar
mine. Hegot me started in with Jim. Heissorelymissed by
LSCC. Wewould alwaysswap us. QuestionoftheMonthby 3
storieswhen hecameto the PaulKluth
Thanks,Bill,for informing us
MichiganStateshow atThanks-
ofJim'sdemise. Also,thanksto Nominationsforthe2009 3
giving. Imissed him thelast few
allwhomake thisnewsletter LSCCHallofFame
yearsand nowI'll misshim for-
possible. Atleaston amonthly
ever. Nothissmile, nor his sto- Answerstolastmonth’s 4-5
basis,club members may'get QuestionoftheMonth
ries--I'llalways have them.
together'and reflect onpeople,
Morephotosfromthe 5
Hesold mean 1855dollar in places, and things… Liberty
2008LSCCAnnualMeet-
Good....apictureperfect Seated. ing
good...agreatplanchet with
OutpouringoverJim 6-7
even wear. Also an 1873-CCno
O’Donnell’sDeath
EmailfromArnoSafran: Iam
arrowshalfAU and an1846 over (cont’d)
saddened tolearn of thepassing
horizontal6EF-45. Great memo-
ofJimO'Donnell.Likemanyofus CollectingShortSetsby 8-11
ries,Great coinsand aGreat
Type-LibertySeatedby
Guy. Seated Libertyenthusiasts,Jim ArnoSafran
and Igobackquite a number of
SubscriberCorrespon- 11
years. Ona teacher'sbudget, dence
EmailfromBob Hammond: Hello Jimmanaged toput meinto
InformationWanted, 11-
Billand fellow LibertySeated somenicetransitionalssuch as
AvailabilityofPastIssues 12
CollectorsClub members. the 1840tilted and uprightshield oftheE-Gobrecht,and
Advertisements
dimes, 1873witharrows&noar-
Toallthose whoknew,
rowshalves(closed three, unfor-
worked with, associated with, LSCCInformation 13
tunately) and alovely1846half
boughtfrom,and valued our fra-
dimeamong other better date
ternalpartner innumismatics,
coins.He evenput meintoan
JimO'Donnell, Iextend mysin-
1840mediumletters Seated half
cere condolences.
out explaining itsoriginand how
Heisamong those who ten-
underrated acoinit was. Years
dered mynumismaticeducation
later I would upgradeitatDick
for severaldecades and assisted
Osburn'stable.
mein my collecting habits,Lib-
(Continuedonpage6)
TheE-GobrechtisatwiceawardwinningelectronicpublicationoftheLibertySeatedCollectorsClub(LSCC). The
LSCCisanon-profitorganizationdedicatedtotheattributionsoftheLibertySeatedCoinseries. TheLSCCprovidestheinfor-
mationcontainedinthisemailnewsletterfromvarioussourcesfreeofchargeasageneralservicetothemembershipandothers
withthisnumismaticinterest. YoudonothavetobeaLSCCmembertobenefitfromthisnewsletter;subscriptiontotheE-
Gobrechtisavailabletoanyone. Alldisclaimersareineffectasthecompletenessand/oraccuracyoftheinformationcontained
hereincannotbecompletelyverified. Contactinformationisincludedattheend.
Page2 The E-Gobrecht
Auction News
by
Jim Gray
TheStack’s73rdAnniversary appearancesoldfor$6,037. Athirdpiecein
Salecontainedanalmost cleanedVF-20soldfor$2,645. Acleaned1873-
completesetofLiberty CCinAU-50withstreakytoningandnotvery
SeatedDollars,includingthe1870-S. Theonly attractiverealized$13,800.
cointhatwaslackingwasthe1851Dollar. Un-
TheHeritage OctoberSalefeatureda
fortunately,eventhoughmostofthecoinswere
verynice1838-Ohalf-dimeinMS-62andchoice
inhighergrades,almostallwereimpairedby
forthegradewent$5,175. Anattractive1846
cleaning,damage,repairs,etc.
halfdimeinXF-45realized$4,025.
Thecoinsofnotewereasfollows: a
Averyattractive1838-Odimewithnorim
cleaned1852originalDollarinMS-60soldfor
cudsinAU-58wentfor$2,185andan1845-O
$23,000. An1870-SDollarinVF-30butwiththe
dimeinXF-45didnotsell. Anoriginal1856-S
obverseextensivelytooledandreengravedand
dimeinVF-35soldfor$1,380andacleanedand
formerlyinthecollectionofF.C.C.Boydsoldfor
porous1874-CCdimeinXF-40stillmanaged
$120,750. An1871-CCDollarinXF-40andthe
$17,250.
bestqualityofallthecoinsinthesalesoldfor
Acleaned1873-CCquarterinXF-40with
$8,625andacleanedXF-40duplicatesoldfor
adecentappearancemanagedastrong$9,775
$5,865. Acleaned1872-CCDollarinAU-55sold
andanattractive1870-CChalfinVF-35hit
for$7,187andasharplystruckduplicateinAU-
$13,800.
50,cleanedandtooledbutstillhavingadecent
Check out the clash marks on the
obverse of this
1867-S Half Dollar !
Do you have a Liberty Seated
Half Dollar with more extensive
clash marks?
2008 Volume 4,Issue 11 (November 2008) Page 3
Question of the Month
Topicsfore-DiscussionbyPaulKluth
BigTime Current Events…
The Stock Market has fallen off drastically and specific large banks are in trou-
ble. Investments and retirement funds have seen steep declines in value re-
cently. Will any Fed bailout actually work? The economic experts are predict-
ing“recession” and possible“depression”.
What does your Crystal Ball say? What do you think is going to happen to the
coin market in general? Are coin values and the price of precious metals going
to decline too? Or is this a good time for investing in rare coins,numismatics in
general,and precious metals as values are going up?
The person with the most accurate crystal ball gets to make the right call!
All responses are welcome! Please give us your thoughts and opinions. Send your reply
to the E-Gobrecht editor at [email protected].
Nominations for 2009 Hall of Fame
Afterthis year’s memorableceremonywhereJohnMcCloskeyandKam Ahwash werethefirst tobe
inductedintothe LSCC’s Hall ofFame,theHall ofFame committeeis pleasedtoannouncethat it is ac-
ceptingnominations forthe LibertySeatedCollectorClub’s 2009Hall ofFame. Eligiblenominees include
clubmembers whohave madesignificant contributions toexpandingtheliteratureonSeated coinage,who
havebuilt animportant collectionof LibertySeatedcoinage,or whohaveservedinaleadershipposition
whilecontributingtothe success of LSCC. Please send yournominations totheHall ofFameCommittee
Chairman,Jim Gray,[email protected]’s nameandashort narrativeon
whyyou feel this individual shouldreceivethis honor. Deadline for2009nominations is December 31,
2008.
Page4 The E-Gobrecht
Answers to Last Month’s Question
Topicsfore-DiscussionbyPaulKluth
Hereis amultifaceted questionthis month. Tell us about your ANA Baltimore experi-
ence!
Whether you are a collector and/or dealer, what was your favorite acquisition in Baltimore?
No need to share what you paid or where you got it because that’s your trade secret of
course. And if it be the case, it’s okay to describe even a “non-Liberty Seated” pur-
chase...well just this one time.
What was your favorite “Liberty Seated” collecting activity during the Convention besides
attending the LSCC Annual Meeting? Also, what can be done to improve your Liberty
Seated collecting enjoyment at future regional meetings/shows?
FromRossBailey: Myfavoritelibertyseated activity (after the LSCCmeeting) at theBalti-
moreANA show was tohang outatDick Osburn'stable and talkcoinswithDick,Randy,
Billand themultitudesthatvisitDick'stable.
Mybig acquisition attheANA was aMexican 8realesthatIpurchased from Louis Hud-
sonR.C. (Yes thereislife after your libertyseated collectionhasbeen completed. I've
beenbranching outinto Mexican colonial coinageand Russian rubles.) The coinhas
beautifuloriginaltoneand luster, veryrareon theseissues. Thefact thatithad a couple
oftinypinscratches thatwillprobablykeep itfrom certifying couldn'tdampen my enthu-
siasm.
FromDennisFortier: The2008ANA conventioninBaltimore wasmyfirstANA conven-
tion aswellasmy firstLSCCmeeting.Iwasreallylooking forward toboththeconvention
and theclub meeting. Iamglad tosaytheybothlived up tomy expectations. TheBourse
washuge,and toget throughitas afirsttimer it was necessaryfor meto concentrate on
Seated Halves exclusively. Iwasable to seeseveralrareissuesand varieties. Iadded a
verynice1872-CCLS halfdollar and an 1873quad stripeLS halfdollar tomycollection.
Mylocalclub wants toget moreyoung collectorsinterested in numismatics. I attended
asymposium onYouthinNumismaticsand learned whatwehavetodotoaccomplishour
goal. Ihopetheknowledgegained willbehelpfulin thatregard.
TheLSCCmeeting wasparticularlyinteresting and fun for me. Igot to meetseveralof
our noted Numismatistsand Authors. I found themalltobe veryfriendly, helpful,and in-
formative. ItwasnicetoseeKamAhwashand John McCloskeyreceive their due recog-
nitionand becomethefirst twoinductees into theLSCCHall of fame. I amlooking for-
ward tofutureclub meetingsand conventions.
FromPaulKluth: Fromafavoritedealer, I picked up anicepair of1843 L.S.HalfDimes
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2008 Volume 4,Issue 11 (November 2008) Page 5
(Continuedfrompage4)
innicegrade. Onea V-5A withtheobverseshattered dieand theother aV-4 with a re-
verseshattered die. Ialwaysfind itenjoyableat shows/major conventionstheopportu-
nity todiscussaparticular varietyor diestagewithanother knowledgeable collector or
LSCCmember. Sharing excitementover coinsthat aremutuallyappreciatedisalwaysa
blastfor any collector. [Bytheway,Idislikehaving toanswer myownquestions,butif
most e-subscribersforgetto send in their replies,I mighthave toputinmy two cents
worth asa filler...]
More Photos from the 2008 LSCC Annual Meeting
Page 6 The E-Gobrecht
greatcoins hehad handled;and while you
(Continuedfrompage1)
weren'talways 100% sureyouweregetting
Jimwasa trusting sortofguy,especially thestraight scoop it wasalwaysvery enter-
ifhe thoughtyouwereaserious numisma- taining.
tist.Heonce allowed metotake home'the
one thatgot away",a magnificent 1853/53
PCGS messageboard fromMowgli: Inever
noarrowsquarter in aPCGS-62 holder. It
realized how manycoinsIboughtfromJim
wasmine for $2,900. [We'retalking 15to 16
until Iwent through mycoinfolder looking
yearsago.] Thebest Icould dowasphoto-
atthereceipts writtenon theback ofhis
graphthepiece,but atthetime,I couldn't
business cards. He sold me alot ofseated
afford it and regrettablyhad toreturnit. I
coinsbuthespecialized inraritiesofall
should have found a way!
kinds- likethe1815 half,1913-S dimeand
Onecould notstop byJim'stable without
an1880businessstrikenickelthat Ialso
receiving animportantlessoninNumismat-
purchased from him. Hewas acharacter
icsand bestof allwerehisShow&Tellses-
and asmany ofyou that knowhim,I have
sions,themost memorable,seeing hisset
heard manyofhiscoinstoriesrepeatedly.
of1870cc,1871cc, 1872cc and 1873ccwith
Thelast timeIsaw himwas inBaltimore
arrowsquarters;allinGemBU or close to
where we had aconversation along with
it. He was a"oner" and weall willmisshim.
JohnFrost(ofBCCS fame). Itis now
burned inmy memory. Ihad manylong con-
versationswithhim over theyears. I'llmiss
EmailfromFrank Leone: Thepassing of Jim
him.
O'Donnellis suchsad news. Hewasamong
thegreatfolks thatreturn as muchtothe
hobbyasthey havereceived. Jimalways
PCGS messageboard fromNumisma: Very
madetime for anyonethatstopped athis
sad news. Iboughtand sold earlytypewith
tableand eachvisitor surelybenefited from
himatshows. Hehad agreateyefor the
the timespentwithJim. I'll surelymisshim.
earlystuffand wastrulyknowledgeable. I
too witnessed one of hisseizures. It was at
theSantaClara showabout 4yearsago.
[Thefollowingquotesareasamplingfrom
Scaryscene. Rest-In-Peace, Jim.........You
thePCGSmessageboardthatLenandI
wereone ofthegood guysand will always
thoughtwouldbeworthwhilerepeatingin
beremembered assuch.
theE-Gobrecht.]
PCGS messageboard fromMr HalfDime:
PCGS messageboard fromLenAugs-
Thisisverysad newsindeed.Jimwasa
burger: O'Donnellwasalways oneof the
greatfriend and amentor ofsorts tome. I
mandatorytables to visitatthe major
have known Jim for perhapstwenty years,
shows,and Iwill misshim. Henever
and Inever passed up theopportunity to sit
touched a computer and insisted ondoing
and chatwith him,to marvel at hismany
business theold-fashioned way untilthe
stories,and tolearn yet more about theLib-
end,relying onhiswellestablished network
ertySeated serieswhich he knewso well.
and customer base. Hewas theguythat
never changed,who had lived in the same WhenI first met Jim O'Donnell, amutual
East-side apartment for fortyyears. He friend introduced us, introducing me to Jim
loved torecountpasttransactionsand
(Continuedonpage7)
2008 Volume 4,Issue 11 (November 2008) Page 7
buying coinsthat had come topass over the
(Continuedfrompage6)
last 20years. But he alwaysremained true
as"an expertinLibertySeated halfdimes". tohisold timeroots. Thestorieshetold of
Iwas mortified. Whatever Imight have whatheranacross inthe1950's,60'sand
knownabouthalfdimespaled incompari- 70'swasalwaysworththelisten. WithKam
sonwith whatJimhad learned over his Ahwashand other old timersgone,Jimwas
manyyearsas adealer. Jim looked at me one ofa vanishing breed of collectorsthat
with adoubting stare,and decided toquiz thoughtmuchdifferently about coinsthan
meonthespot toseeifIwas,infact,an ex- mostdo today. Whilehe knewthevalue ofa
pert.Heasked "WhichoftheCivilWar buckbetter than almostanyone,hedidn't
Philadelphiadates (1863,1864,1865,1866, makethat theprimaryfocus, atleastnot
and 1867) was therarest?" I hesitated be- with me. Ivalued all theinsightshegave
causeI knewthat most'experts'at thattime meover theyears. Therewere manyspe-
deemed the1864to betherarest,butIdid cific timesin the80's and 90's whenthe
not agree,yetwasreluctantto express my marketwasslowat major showswhen the
theorywhenbeing quizzed. I haltinglyan- only thing tolookforward towaschatting
swered "Well, mostpeoplewould probably with Jim about"seated." EverytimeI flip
saythe 1864wasthe rarest,butIthinkitis through old auction catalogslikeNorweb
the 1865". Jimsmiled,extended hishand, for example, Iseecoinsthat Jimbought,
and said "Youreally arean expert, aren't such ashisNorweb 1871-CCquarter in
you." From thatmomenton,Jimand Ibe- MS64for whatwasa bargainprice($26K).
camebest offriends. Heknewhowtospot valueand hold on to it
until themarketvaluecaughtup with him.
IrecentlysentJima letter abouta coin he
I'msurethat exasperated many adealer
had thatI wasinterested in, asI knewthat
looking toscore on him. Iwonder how
hedid not haveacomputer,did notemail,
many,if any,ever did.
and virtuallynever answered atelephone
calldespitethemanybusinesscardshe Iremember mylast coin transactionwith
had givenmeover theyears.I never re- Jimwhere Iflipped himan undamaged
ceived ananswer. Sadly,nowIknow why. 1873-CCdimeinG/VGthatI had bought ata
local shop. WhileI madeafair profitonthat
Yes,itwasdifficulttowatch Jim whenhe
coin Ileft50-100%"onthetable" asa way
had an epilepticseizure,but hetried to
tosaythanksfor alltheinformationhe
never let thatget him down,and quicklyre-
shared withmeover theyears. Wedidn't
gained his composureand resumed lifeas
discussanything about thedealsohe was
normallyashe could afterwards. He was
not awarewhyIwas leaving himplenty of
sincere,friendly, fair and honest,and Ial-
room. Heprobablythoughthe tookadvan-
ways enjoyed my manydealingswithhim,
tageof me thatdaybutin hindsight,itwas
and particularlyour manynumismaticdis-
mewhogot thelion's sharebecause of
cussions. Thehobbyhaslost one ofitsgi-
whatIlearned from him.
ants,and hewillbesorelymissed.
We'll miss you, Jim
.
PCGS messageboard fromroadrunner: I
had heard rumor ofthisunfortunatenews
lastweekbutwashoping itwasnot true.
Jimwasalwaysagentlemanand oftenwas
atoddswiththeslick methodsofselling and
Page 8 The E-Gobrecht
[With permission of the author, the followingarticle is reprinted from the
Aiken, SC CSRA Coin Club’s October 2008 newsletter.]
Collecting Short Sets by Type –Liberty Seated
ByArnoSafran
An1836GobrechtDollarJ-60Original
The genesis of the Liberty Seated type silver coins goes back to 1835 when Mint Director Robert Maskell Patterson
askedthenChiefEngraver WilliamKneasstoprepare apatternfortheresumptionofanewsilver dollar.Pattersonwantedthe
new coin type to be modeled after the Britannia motif used on English coinage. Painters Thomas Sully and Titian Peale were
invited to prepare sketches along the lines Patterson desired but before Kneass got very far, he suffered a “debilitating” stroke
and was replaced by his assistant Christian Gobrecht. The new Chief engraver made a number of patterns based on the
sketches of Sully and Peale that produced a Liberty Seated figure within an open field for the obverse and a soaring eagle in a
sea of stars with the Legend UNITED STATES OF AMERICA on the reverse. 1,000 proof Gobrecht dollars were released on
December 31,1836 andanother 600 on March 31,1837 stillwith the 1836 date but under a different alignment.President An-
drew Jackson and other dignitaries were given presentation pieces with the rest placed into circulation. During 1837 the same
Gobrecht obverse type was used for the dime and half dime but the eagle was removed from the reverse and replaced by a
laurelwreath.When the LibertySeateddesign was introducedon the quarter in1838 andon the half dollar the followingyear,
the design was again modified. Stars were placed around the central device but inexplicably, the old John Reich Spread Eagle
type was restored replacing the soaring eagle on the reverse. Finally, in 1840, these same changes were added to the dollar
denomination.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CollectingaShortSetofLibertySeatedTypes
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2008 Volume 4,Issue 11 (November 2008) Page 9
(Continuedfrompage8)
AShortSetcomprisingthefirstphaseofLibertySeatedobversesandreverses
18395¢,1853 arrowsatdate10¢,184925¢ nomotto
1854-O arrowsatdate-nomotto50¢&1863$1.00 nomotto
It is a pity that Gobrecht’s outstanding original design type was not left as it was. While the nostarsdesign is arguably
moreattractivethanthewithstars surroundingMissLibertyontheobverse,theremovableofthemajesticsoaringeagleinasea
of stars on the reverse in favor the old Spread Eagle design was inexcusable and more likely due to functionality triumphing
overaesthetics.ShownaboveanddirectlybelowarethebasicmajortypesofthefirstphaseofLibertySeatedcoinage.
The first phase of Liberty Seated coinage ran from 1837 thru 1860 for the half dimes and dimes and from 1838
through 1865-66 for the quarters, half dollars and dollars. The obverses of the minor silver denominations display the 13 stars
around Liberty and a laurel wreath on the reverse. The first phase of the three larger denominations is represented on the re-
verses by the absence of the motto, IN GOD WE TRUST. There were numerous sub-types introduced along the way but for
one on a modest discretionary income, the five Liberty Seated coins shown on column one feature relatively common dates
gradingAU-50toAU-58andarestillmodestlypricedinthatrange.
LibertySeatedPhase2Coinage
TheObversesofthewithlegendobverseandwithmottoreverse
1872-S5¢,187010¢,1875-S20¢,189125¢,187150¢and1873$1.00
In 1860, the half dime and dime received a partial face lifting. The 13 stars were removed from the obverse and re-
placed by the legend UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. The laurel wreath was supplanted by a wreath comprised of corn, cot-
ton,tobacco andwheat. In 1866,the motto,IN GOD WE TUSTwas inserted above the eagle on the reverse of the three lar-
gercoinsandin1875,anew20¢piecedenominationwasstrucktoenablemerchantsinthewesternterritoriestomakechange
using silver rather than nickel.(The 5¢ nickel was not popular in this area.) It was short lived but represents a particular
placeinUScoinagelore.
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Page 10 The E-Gobrecht
(Continuedfrompage9)
CollectingaShortSetofLibertySeatedTypes
An1873LibertySeated50¢ witharrowsgrading AU-58
Of the six Libertyseateddenominations,it is the half dollar that comes closest to realizingGobrecht’s originalartistic
conceptionasitappearstohavebeenlittlealteredexceptforthe13starsbeingaddedtotheobversefield.
In 1840 Robert Ball Hughes an engraver from England was brought into the Philadelphia Mint to help “improve” the
originaldesigns Gobrecht prepared.Manynumismatists share the opinion that he actuallyweakenedthe design byenlargingthe
head while widening (or flattening out) the appearance of the seated figure. Other questionable changes involved reducing the
size of the rock at the lower left while increasing the size of the scroll across the shield. Besides adding drapery to Miss Lib-
erty’sgown(between her left elbow and waist)onthehalfdimesanddimesof1840,Hughesalsorearrangedtheshieldfrom
a slanted to an upright position further weakening the design. Ironically it is these very questionable modifications that have
creatednumerousobverseandreversesub-typesforthemoreardentcollectorsofLibertySeatedcoinagetoconsider.
Obversesofan1838dimeand1849dimecompared.
Noticetheshieldpositions, thesizesofthehead, thelackofdraperyunderLiberty’sleftarmonthe1838andtheaddeddrap-
eryonthe1849,andfinallythedatesizesofeachcoin.
(Continuedonpage11)
