Table Of ContentLiberty Seated
The E-Gobrecht Collectors Club
2010 Volume6,Issue8
TheElectronicNewsletteroftheLIBERTYSEATEDCOLLECTORSCLUB
August2010(Whole#67)
AuctionNews 2
LSCC Annual Meeting this Month!
byJimGray
Questionofthe 3
Month
In conjunctionwiththeAmericanNumismaticAssociation's World's Fair of
Money,theofficers ofthe LibertySeatedCollectors Clubinviteall members, Seatedcoinina 3
guests, and anyonewith aninterest in LibertySeatedcoinagetoparticipate in PCGSRegency
holder
theClub’s 37thannual meeting. It will beheldon Thursday,August 12,2010at
9AM intheSheratonBostonHotel’s GardnerRoom. TheSheratonconnects AnswerstoLast 4
Month’sQoM
directlytotheJohnB.Hynes ConventionCenter andthebourse floor.
Alivelyagendais plannedincludingpresentation ofthe2009Ahwash RegionalNews 5
andJames B.PryorResearchawards, reports of clubactivities, andaclubbene- ByGerryFortin
fit auction. Copies ofthe latest editionoftheGobrecht Journal Collective Vol-
TheBudgetCollec-
ume#5will beavailable forinspectionandpurchase. Completemeetingdetails tor:FourthinaSeries 6,8
canbefoundinthe Gobrecht JournalIssue#108 onpage14. ByLenAugsburger
QuarteroftheMonth 7,9
Items tobe auctionedincludethefollowing: byGregJohnson
1869LibertySeated
DeluxeleatherhardboundeditionofARegister of LibertySeatedHalf Dol- Dimes;Dr.TimCook
lar Varieties, VolumeI,SanFranciscoBranchMintbyBill Bugert,Copy IdentifiesaFifth 10-
ShortFlag1Obverse 11
#10of10copies.
DiebyGerryFortin
DeluxeleatherhardboundeditionofARegister of LibertySeatedHalf Dol- Thegrosslyunder-
rated1843-ODime 12-
lar Varieties, VolumeII, CarsonCityBranchMintfeaturingtheCC collec-
ByJasonFeldman 13
tionofRandyWiley,byBill Bugert,Copy#10of 10copies.
PCGSRegistrySet
awardwinners 13
A1967HanoverNumismaticSocietysilvermedal,serial number358, fea-
turingthebust ofChristianGobrecht (donatedbyRichUhrichRare U.S. SubscriberCorre- 13
Coins). spondence
1865DoubleDate 14-
ATrial copyofnext year’sGobrecht Journalcoverart - Unique(will not be HalfDollarRevisited 15
used inthefollowing year). byPaulBrill
NewHalfDollarDie
ATrial copyofnext year’sGobrecht Journalcoverart - Thecovercoin for MarriageDiscoveries 16
the2010-2011volume. ByBillBugert
FreeAdvertisements 17
All proceeds from thesedonateditems will benefit theLSCC Treasury.
Clubinformation 18
TheE-GobrechtisatwiceawardwinningelectronicpublicationoftheLibertySeatedCollectorsClub(LSCC). The
LSCCisanon-profitorganizationdedicatedtotheattributionsoftheLibertySeatedCoinseries. TheLSCCprovides
theinformationcontainedinthisemailnewsletterfromvarioussourcesfreeofchargeasageneralservicetothe
membershipandotherswiththisnumismaticinterest. YoudonothavetobeaLSCCmembertobenefitfromthis
newsletter;subscriptiontotheE-Gobrechtisavailabletoanyone. Alldisclaimersareineffectasthecompleteness
and/oraccuracyoftheinformationcontainedhereincannotbecompletelyverified. Contactinformationisincludedat
theend.
Page2 The E-Gobrecht
Auction News
by Jim Gray, LSCC #664
Thesummerdoldrums limited impressive$2,760,whilean1862-S inXF40went
relevant sales toonlytheHeri- for$1,035. An1865-S inXF40soldfor$1,093 and
tageSummerFunSale. an1866-S inVF20went for$2,070.Anice forthe
An1846halfdimein grade1867-S inVF25hammeredfor$2,760, whilea
VG8soldfor$863. mundane1868-S inXF40soldfor$632,as didan
An1846dimeinVF30 1869-S inVF30. An1870-CC withaG4obverse
realized$1,495. Two1874-ccdimes were forsale. andanAG3 reversestill manage$7,475. Aharshly
Thefirst hadXFdetails but hadbeenharshlycleaned cleaned1871-CC withVFdetails soaredto$7,187,
andhaddamageonthereversenearthedenomina- whilean1872-CC withVGdetails andanobverse
tion yet it still soldfor$6,325. Theotherhad AU scratchonlysoldfor$1,955. An1873closed3in
details but was cleaned, nicelyretoned andwas well VG10soldfor$1,265. An1873-CC inG4 but
struckwithafewscratches, but didnot sell. cleaned went for$1,840, whileaduplicateinG6hit
Thesalecontainedacomprehensive consign- animpressive$4,600. An1878-S inXF45soldfor
ment ofmedium andlower gradeSeatedquarters. A $1,380.
verynice1842-Osmall dateinVF25hit $2,990. An Anattractive1852-OhalfdollarinXF45sold
1849-OinVG10soldfor $2,070,andanadditional for$1,725,whilean1866-S nomottoinVF25went
specimenwithXFdetails but cleanedsoldfor a for$1,150. Anicelytoned1874-CC inXF45hit a
strong$6,613. An1851-OinVF20went for$1,495, solid$5,463.
whilean1852-OinVF25hit $2,415. Anattractive An1855dollarinAU50 but weakontheup-
1859-S withAUdetails andcleanedbut nicelytoned pereaglesoldfor$4,457, whilean1872-S inAU55
backsoaredto$9,200. An1860-S inF12roseto an but withtwoobversestreaks ekedout $3,220.
Upcoming LSCC Meetings
August12,2010 World’sFair ofMoney,Boston,MA ANA Convention
Thursday,9AM,SheratonBostonHotel(Connectsdirectlyto the
ConventionCenter) Gardner Room. (LSCCAnnual meeting)
September 24,2010 Long Beach,CACoinand CollectablesExpo
Friday,time and locationTBD. (LSCCRegionalmeeting)
October 29, 2010 October 2010CoinFest,Stamford,CT
Friday,9AM,roomTBD.(LSCCRegional meeting)
2010 Volume 6,Issue 8 (August 2010) Page3
Question of the Month
Topicfore-DiscussionbyPaulKluth,LSCC#1994
This month’s question is from Club member, Dennis Garstang.
We have an opportunity for a “Seated Category" at Central States Show
next year in Chicago if there is enough interest by the membership. Of
course, you will not have to be a member of LSCC to exhibit but thought I
would start by gauging the level of interest in that group hence a "call for the
question.”
Comments or questions may be directed to me at [email protected].
If there is a high enough level of interest, I will proceed with the Cen-
tral States people to set this up.
All responses are welcome! Please consider taking a few moments and sending in your
thoughts and opinions.
As seen on the PCGS coin fo-
rum, here is an interesting
1855 in an old and very rare
Regency holder with original
sued pouch. It is actually an
1855/4 variety and grades
AU50.
Has anyone seen another
seated coin in a Regency
holder?
ImagecourtesyofthePCGSU.S.coin
forum.
Page4 The E-Gobrecht
Answer to last Month’s Question
What is the most difficult decade of your favorite Seated denomination to collect and why?
From Dennis Fortier: Iwill answermyownquestion. Icollect LibertySeatedHalfDollars andlove varie-
ties. Therearetwodecades that standout inmymind. The1870's havethe1878-S keydate as well as the
CC years with1870,1874,and1878beingthescarcest dates. 1873has the withandwithout arrows varie-
ties, inadditionthereis onemajorvarietythe1873noarrows open3whichis extremelyrareandpopular.
Lastlyoneofmyfavorite issues is thelowmintage1873-S.
That saidthe1840's are abonanzaforvarietycollectors andtopmylist for themost challenging
decade. Let’s start withthefirst U.S.branchmint coinwithout amintmark: 1840(O)Medium Letters,
madewiththe1838Bust reversethis oneis aclassicandhighlysought afterbycollectors.
1841lowermintageof300,000
1841-OBaseball DieCrack(only40known)
1842Small Date/ SmallLetters Rev(onlya fewknown)
1842-OSmall Date/ Small Letters (onlyahandful known)
1844-ODoubleDatePossiblythebest knownvarietyoftheseries
1846Horizontal 6verypopularwithcollectors
1846-OTall Datescarce andverypopular
1847/6oneoftherarest varieties oftheseries (only30-40known)
1849DramaticDouble Dateanother great rarity(only20-30known)
Estimates from DickOsburn’s " Analysis ofRarityandPopulationEstimates for LibertySeated
HalfDollars"and consultations withBill Bugert.
From Charles Sullivan: Icollect Seatedhalves. The1870's is byfarthehardest decade, withseven very
challengingCarson Cityissues hardtofindinattractiveconditionwithout skippingthemortgagepayment
forafewmonths.
In answertoreaderinquiries: "Howmanyseated quarters, halves, anddollars arestill trulyoriginal withno
harsh cleaning,dipping, andresultinghairlines?"
[Ihave] Threeobservations here:
1.Thelargerthedenomination,thelargertheunprotectedareas onobverse andreverse,andthus
hairlines becomemoredistracting. This phenomenonhas twosideeffects: laymen want tocleanthe coin
andserious collectors want toavoidit.
2.Historically,theless wearthe coinhad,themorelikelysome fool felt theneedtomakethecoin
"bright andshiny" again. Perhaps 10%ofSeated quarters, halves, anddollars withVF-Unc.wearlevels
haveescaped cleaning. Theironyis that 90%of today's collectors consideratrulyoriginal Seated cointo
beugly. Jim Graydelights intellingus aparticularcoinsoldforsmall moneyat theauction"dueto ugly
toning."WeimarWhiteconstantlyspreads the gospel of"toningis wear."
3.Atrulyoriginal Seated coinwithVForbetterwear,nosigns ofcleaning, andwithout dark,
streaky,orsplotchytoning,is graderarebydefinition.
Myadvice? If youseesuchananimal at thelocal bourseoreBayat type-coinmoney,buyit! Save
it for yourchildren.
2010 Volume 6,Issue 8 (August 2010) Page5
Regional News
by Gerry Fortin, LSCC #1054
Dear fellow LSCC members, numismaticclubs suchas EarlyAmericanCoppers
I’m suremanyLSCC arealreadyengaged.
members arelookingforwardto
theBostonANAshow whichis Summer FUNShow Report
just afewdays away. Thereis
noquestionofmypersonal relief andhappiness to SincetheJulyRegional News report,the
haveworkedout abusiness situationthat allows a SummerFUNshowinOrlando,Florida was held.
returntotheUS onAugust 6andconventionatten- Jason Feldman,SouthRegional Director,scheduled
dance. ThesummerANAshowis typicallythe an- an LSCC regional meetingduringtheshow andalso
nual highlight fornumismatists as theyseriouslypur- provided LSCC publicityat acomplimentarydisplay
suetheirhobbyfor aweekandenjoythesocial gath- table. Jason reportedthe followingconcerningthe
eringopportunities that theannual ANAconvention SummerFUN:
offers.
“Noneofthetypical LSCC members werein
The LSCC annual meetingis scheduledfor attendanceandtheSummerFunshowitselfwas
ThursdayAugust 12at 9:00am. Pleasecheckthe quiet,withdealers mostlydoingwholesalebusiness.
LSCC websiteatwww.lsccweb.orgformeeting Emphasis onattractingYoungNumismatists (YN)
room locationorthelast pageofthis newsletter. The was successful as Ihadhoped. Therewas positive
clubofficers areplanningalivelyagenda withpres- responsetothe LSCC displays at the complimentary
entations anddiscussiononnewinitiatives foren- tablewithseveral individuals expressinginterest in
hancingclubmember experience. Inparticular,the joiningtheclub. Adozenseatedcoins were given
LSCC websitewill receivemuchneededattention awayalongwithtwo LibertySeatedDimeVarieties
sincetheclubhas the abilityto expandcontent and web-bookCDROMs and sixGobrecht Journalsto
features at will. Aproposal foraddinga condition interestedparties.
census set publicationmoduletobewebsitewill be
airedfor clubmember feedback andsupport. Condi- Ourtablelocationwas less thanoptimum in
tioncensus set reportingcouldbeaccomplished thebackcornerofthehall but wewereinproximity
throughanopenregistryforrawandcertifiedcoins totheotherclubtables. Overall, Ifelt the LSCC re-
across all seateddenominations. Members could ex- ceivedsufficient exposureincludingthosepeople
hibit theircollections andvieforpublicstandingas a whodidnot knowthere was even aclubforseated
conditioncensus set. Therearethoughts of LSCC coinage. In addition,theLSCC clubtableandre-
awards forleadingsets toencourageclubmember gional meetingwill receivefurther exposureinthe
involvement. In additiontotheconditioncensus upcomingFUNTopics. Insummary,themeeting
set/websiteproposal, Ialso plantodiscuss myANA was alittledisappointingas was theshowretail busi-
SummerSeminarexperienceand conversations with ness but theexposureintheshowprogram andthe
KenBressett,whois well knownas theRedbook upcomingissueof FunTopics is anotherpositive
editor. Kenhas askedthe LSCC tobecome anactive stepfor LSCC publicity. Iam quiteconfident of a
consultant andtosupport updates of LibertySeated muchstrongerturnout at theJanuary2011 FUN
coinagedescriptions, pricings and majorvarieties in showandplanningis alreadyunderway.”
theRedbook. Currently, Kenindicates that helacks
astrongconsultant forseatedcoinagewhileother
(Continuedonpage8)
Page6 The E-Gobrecht
The Budget Collector:
Seated Deals & Steals
Under a Hundred Dollars
FourthinaSeries
By Len Augsburger, LSCC #1271
This month’s bargainbinentryoriginates onceagainfrom eBay,themarketplacethat seems toneverend.
This purchasewas reportedtomebyawell-knowncherrypickerwithinthe LSCC,whoseems tohavean
extraordinaryknack fornot onlyfindingtheextraordinary,but also forpayinglittleornothinginreturn.
Wehaveherean1841-O small-Oclosedbudreversedime,“polishedalittle”accordingtothebuyer,and
purchased forslightlyless thantwoquid(English pounds),whichcomes out toabout threedollars Ameri-
can. What thebuyerpaidforshippingis unrecorded,andprobablyexceededthecost oftheitem itself.
Whythepayment inforeign currencyyouask? It turns out this item waspurchasedon eBay.ie,the
Irish equivalent ofthepopularauctionsite. It turns out eBaymaintains a wholenumberofinternational
venues, suchas eBay.de forGermany,eBay.frfor France,andso on. Quitefrequently,onecanfindUnited
States coins listedonthesesites, andchances arethat thesellerwon’t beintimatelyacquaintedwiththe
moreesoteric LibertySeatedvarieties. I’veseen US coinageforsaleinmytravels toEurope,but thetypi-
cal offeringis araw goldcoinwithahighprice. Suchapurchasecanturn out tobeaquiteexpensivemis-
take. Payingtwoquidfora LibertySeateddime, however,maywell beworththegamble.
OureBaybidderpurchasedtheitem from aseller inWestcliff-in-Sea,aseasideresort onthe coast
ofEngland,situatedabout 34miles east of London. Howthecointraveled across theAtlanticis anyone’s
guess. Theoldadageabout “coins talking” comes tomind,andonecouldengageinall mannerofspecula-
tionhere,but all wehave is thecoinitself,so let us seewhat it cantell us.
(Continuedonpage8)
2010 Volume 6,Issue 8 (August 2010) Page7
Quarter of the Month
By Greg Johnson, LSCC #1460
The1857-Oquarteris a very lowest datepositionseen onaseatedquarter. The
interestingissueforvarietycol- datenearlytouches thedenticles as showninimage
lectors. Thetotal of10diepair- oftheobverse.
ings catalogedinTheComplete
Encyclopediaof UnitedStates
LibertySeatedQuarters repre-
sents enoughdistinct coins to
present a challenge,but not so manyas tomakea
completediemarriageset unattainable. Threeofthe
diepairings appeartobe veryrare,includingtheelu-
siveobversewith“18”inthedenticles. Threeofthe
diepairings are commonwithinthecontext ofO-
mint seatedquarters. This monthwewill lookat the
1857-O“lowdate”variety, comprisingtwoofthe
diepairings inthemiddle groupthat is neithercom-
monnorextremelyrare.
Imageof1857-OReverseB(above):
Mintmarkleft ofthecrotchandtouchingthefeather
The1857-Olowdatevarietyconsists of
coins struckfrom asingleobversedie(Briggs’6)
pairedwithtworeversedies (Briggs’ B andC). The
varietyis anobvious one that canbe easilyattributed
without magnification. This particulardiehas the
lowest datepositionofanyofthelargedateseated
quarters. Whenthelogotype was decreasedinsize Imageof1857-OReverseC (above):
laterintheseries, it becamepossibletolocatedates Mintmarkcenteredinthe crotch
evenfurtherfrom the rockthanonthe1857-Oob-
verse6,but uptothat timethis dierepresents the
(Continuedonpage9)
Page8 The E-Gobrecht
TheBudgetCollector(Continuedfrompage6) wouldhaveit,ourbuyer stumbledontothemore
scarceofthetwo,that beingthesmall-Ovariety.
Thebuyerwas workingoffsomenot very Thesmall Omintmarkappears as anearlyperfect
goodpictures (as seen). Whilenot crisp, theimage circlewhilethelarge Ois oval-shaped. Whilethe
ofthereverseis still quitetelling. First,thediewear varietyis not yet recognizedintheRedBook,it is
is quiteobvious, and,as it turns out,acharacteristic well knownamongserious collectors ofseateddimes
ofthis particularvariety. GerryFortinstates ofthe andhighlyprized. Anumberofthese appearonthe
1841-OF-102, “Well circulatedexamples ofthis va- websites oftheusual dealers ofseatedcoinage,
rietycanbe found…showingexcessivewearinthe all listedat four-figureprices. Not abad returnfor
centerofthereversedue toadiebulge.” It’s asafe oureagle-eyed eBayhunter.
bet ourbuyerwas well awareofthis diagnostic.
Secondly,the closedbud (situatedjust totheright of ThismonththeANAis inBoston,August
NinUNITEDonthe reverse)is fairlyclear,and 10-14. This a great opportunitytoscopeout dealer
thereis noevident split at thetipofthebudas one inventories forunattributedbargains, andwhile you
wouldseeontheopenbud. might not findthenext closedbudreversedime, you
will definitelyfindalot a coins tolookthroughand
Thevarietyis significant as atransitional fellowcollectors toshare yourstories with. The
issue,as it reusedthe1840-Oreversedie. The1841- LSCC Annual Meetingis onThursday,August 12th,
Oclosedbudcomes intwoflavors, witheither a at 9AM intheGardnerRoom oftheSheratonHotel,
largeorsmall mintmark. Fortinidentifies two1841- connectedtotheConventionCenter. Hopetosee
Odiepairs withtheclosedbudreverse,thefirst with youthere!
thelargeO andthesecondwiththesmall O. As luck
(Continuedfrompage5)
Also inoursights is theOctober29,2010
UpcomingRegional Meetings regional meetinginStamford,Connecticut incon-
junctionwiththeCoinFest show. Moreinformation
Thenext regional meetingis scheduledfor will beforthcomingfrom Dennis Fortier,East Re-
September24at the LongBeach,Californiashow. gional Director,intheSeptemberandOctoberE-
CraigEberhart,West Regional Director and Iare Gobrechtissues.
currentlybrainstormingapproaches toincreasepub-
licityandtoprovidemeetingattendees withanin-
sightful experience.
2010 Volume 6,Issue 8 (August 2010) Page9
QuarteroftheMonth(Continuedfrompage7) ent examples ofthe1857-Oquartersince1/1/1999
(whentheybeganarchivingphotos). Atotal of44
Reverses BandC areidentifiedbymintmark coins wereinproblem free grades and11morewith
positions withreverseB havingamintmarkleft of significant problems notedwereoffered. Only6of
thecrotchandtouchingthefeather,whilereverse C the55coins featuredthe lowdateobversedieillus-
has amintmarkcentered inthecrotchapproximately tratedabove. Twoofthe 6lowdatequarters had ob-
equallydistant from featherandolivebranch. verse6paired withreverseBandtheremaining4
werepairedwithreverse C. Theonlyproblem free
The1857-Oas adate andmintmarkis a 6Bexamplewas inaSEGS holdergraded XF45 and
scarcecointhat becomes veryscarce andrareinal- soldas part of LarryBriggs’ referencecollectionin
most uncirculatedandmint stategrades, respec- 1999. Theother6Bcoin was anXFdetails piece
tively. Overthepast few years, thelowdatedie withreversedamagesold as part oftheJules Reiver
pairings havebeenavailableperiodicallyinlowto collectionin2006. The 4examples ofdiepair6C in
medium circulated grades, but veryseldom seenin theHeritage archiveincludeanF12 cleanedcoin
high grade. PopulationdataforNGC andPCGS in- holderedbySEGS andsoldas part of LarryBriggs’
dicatethat thetwoservices have graded atotal of referencecollectionin1999inonelot withfiveother
121examples inall grades, 33ofthosearemint state seatedquarters includingthe6Bcoinmentioned
coins, and58areinthe AUgrades. LarryBriggs,in above. Interestingly,ofthethree remaining6C coins
TheCompleteEncyclopediaof UnitedStates Liberty all wereproblem freeandtwoweremint state–one
SeatedQuarters,states that the1857-Ois R6(13-30 anNGC MS64andtheotheraPCGS MS62. It does
known)inmint stateandR4(76-250known)in appearthat,eveninlowergrades, the6C diepairis
XF/AU. moreavailablethan6B. Thehighest graded6B coin
seenhas beenanXF45.
AdetailedexaminationoftheHeritageauc-
tionarchiveshows that theyhaveoffered55differ- All photos courtesyofHeritage.com.
Don’t forget to attend the
LSCC Annual meeting
at the ANA in Boston
See details on pages 2 or 18.
Page10 The E-Gobrecht
1869 Liberty Seated Dimes; Dr. Tim Cook
Identifies a Fifth Short Flag 1 Obverse Die
by Gerry Fortin, LSCC #1054
The1869 LibertySeated dimedate,withamintageof256,000,remains apersonal favoritedueto
theusageoftwodifferent datepunchstyles andtheextremedifficultywithlocatingAUorbetterexamples
foroneofthe datepunch types. Concerningthe1869obversedies withinTheDefinitiveResourcefor Lib-
ertySeatedDimeVariety Collectors,Ilist thedate punchstyles as Short Flag1 and LongFlag1sincethe
flagonthe1digit is quitedissimilarbetweenthetwo. Toprovideappropriatebackground,followingare
images oftheindividual datepunchstyles.
Acomparison ofthedigit styles withintheShort Flag1and LongFlag1punches clearlyindicates
that all fourdigits aredifferent.Notabledifferences betweenthetwodate punches, besides the flaglengths
onthe1digit,arethesizevariations inthelower oval ofthe6digits andtheupperloopofthe9digits. The
digits onthe LongFlag1 punchappeartobethinnerandmoredelicatethan ontheShort Flag1punch.
WithinTheCompleteGuidetoLibertySeatedDimes,BrianGreerlists Short Flag11869dimes as
R5+inEF/AUandR7in Mint Statewhilethe LongFlag1varietyis shownas R5inEF/AUandR6- in
Mint State. Aftermanyyears ofseeking1869dimes andtheelusiveShort Flag1varietyinAUor better
formyreference collection, Ibelievethat aShort Flag1inproblem freeAUis anR6+rarityand a Mint
Stateexamplecouldbeas difficult as R7+. Simplysaid, LongFlag11869 dimes dominatetheAU orbet-
tergrades whenavailable. Proofs aremorecommonthanbusiness strikes.
ThroughJune2010, IhadlocatedanddocumentedfourseparateShort Flagobversedies until Dr.
Tim Cooksent alongan 1869dimewithanobversethat didnot matchthosepreviouslylisted. Iwas quite
surprisedtosee afifthShort Flag1obversediesurface afterextensivecheckingofall 1869Short Flag1
dimes that crossedmypath. OnTim’s discoverycoin,thedatepunchis bold,especiallyat thetopflagof
the1digit. Thedatehas aslight upwardslopewiththe1digit evenlyspacedbetweenthebaseanddenti-
cles. Thefirst S inSTATES is partial as compared tofullybrokenS onotherShort Flag1obversedies. The
reversealso exhibits alongdielinethroughthe D inDIME. IgradedDr. Cook’s dimeas EF45andwas
pleasedtoincludethis new1869F-107listingintheweb-book.
(Continuedonpage11)
