Table Of ContentS. Hrg. 104-293
CONGRESSIONAL AND FEDERAL PENSION REVIEW
Y 4.G 74/9: S. HRG. 104-293
Congressional and Federal PensionTR.A..RINGS
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON POST OFFICE AND
CIVIL SERVICE
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON
GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED FOURTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
MAY
15, 1995
CONGRESSIONAL PENSION REVIEW
MAY 22 AND JUNE 19, 1995
FEDERAL PENSION REVIEW
Printed for the use of the Committee on Governmental Affairs
«-s.^
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
91-055cc WASHINGTON 1996
:
ForsalebytheU.S.GovernmentPrintingOffice
SuperintendentofDocuments,CongressionalSalesOffice,Washington,DC 20402
ISBN 0-16-052183-1
\
S. Hrg. 104-293
CONGRESSIONAL AND FEDERAL PENSION REVIEW
4. G 74/9: S. HRG. 104-293
nqressional and Federal PensionTR.A..RINGS
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON POST OFFICE AND
CIVIL SERVICE
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON
GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED FOURTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
MAY 15, 1995
CONGRESSIONAL PENSION REVIEW
MAY 22 AND JUNE 19, 1995
FEDERAL PENSION REVIEW
Printed for the use of the Committee on Governmental Affairs
wwJ
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
91-055cc WASHINGTON 1996
:
ForsalebytheU.S.GovernmentPrintingOffice
SuperintendentofDocuments,CongressionalSalesOffice,Washington,DC 20402
ISBN 0-16-052183-1
COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
WILLIAM V. ROTH, Jr., Delaware, Chairman
TED STEVENS, Alaska JOHN GLENN, Ohio
WILLIAM S. COHEN, Maine SAM NUNN, Georgia
FRED THOMPSON, Tennessee CARL LEVIN, Michigan
THAD COCHRAN, Mississippi DAVID PRYOR, Arkansas
CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut
JOHN McCAIN, Arizona DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii
BOB SMITH, New Hampshire BYRON L. DORGAN, North Dakota
Franklin G. Polk, StaffDirector and ChiefCounsel
Leonard Weiss, Minority StaffDirector
Michal Sue Prosser, ChiefClerk
SUBCOMMITTEE ON POST OFFICE AND CIVIL SERVICE
TED STEVENS, Alaska, Chairman
THAD COCHRAN, Mississippi DAVID PRYOR, Arkansas
JOHN McCAIN, Arizona DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii
BOB SMITH, New Hampshire BYRON L. DORGAN, North Dakota
Patricia A. Raymond, StaffDirector
Kimberly Weaver, Minority StaffDirector
Nancy Langley, ChiefClerk
(ID
CONTENTS
Opening statements: Paee
SenatorStevens L 71
SenatorPryor 31J1>. 7°
SenatorAkaka 39, 78
Senator Dorgan 79
WITNESSES
Monday, May 15, 1995
Hon. Richard H. Bryan, U.S. Senator from the State ofNevada 2
Hon. James P. Moran, Representative in Congress from the State ofVirginia . 13
William E. Flynn, III, Associate Director for Retirement and Insurance, U.S.
Office ofPersonnel Management 18
Johnny C. Finch, Assistant Comptroller General, General Government Pro-
grams, U.S. General Accounting Office; accompanied by Robert Shelton,
Assistant Division Director for Human Resource Management Issues, Gen-
eral Government Division 24
Monday, May 22, 1995
Carolyn L. Merck, Specialist in Social Legislation, Education and Welfare
Division, Congressional Research Service 33
Johnny C. Finch, Assistant Comptroller General, General Government Pro-
grams, General Accounting Office; accompanied by Bob Shelton, Assistant
Division Director, Federal Human Resource Management Issues, General
Government Division 40
Monday, June 19, 1995
LouisJ. Freeh, Director, Federal Bureau ofInvestigation 72
Stephen H. Greene, Deputy Administrator, Drug Enforcement Administra-
tion 74
John Sturdivant, National President, American Federation of Government
Employees, AFL-CIO 85
Robert M. Tobias, National President, National Treasury Employees Union .... 87
Sonya Constantine, Acting National President, National Federation ofFederal
Employees 89
Moe Biller, President, American Postal Workers Union, AFL-CIO 96
Vince Palladino, President, National Association ofPostal Supervisors 99
Ted Carrico, Secretary-Treasurer, National Association of Postmasters ofthe
United States 100
Roger W. Moreland, Vice President, National Rural Letter Carriers' Associa-
tion 102
William P. Brennan, President, National League ofPostmasters 103
Bruce L. Moyer, Executive Director, Federal ManagersAssociation 109
Robert S. Duncan, Past President, National Council, Social Security Manage-
mentAssociations 110
Carol A. Bonosaro, President, Senior Executives Association 112
HeleneA. Benson, President, Professional Managers Association 114
Charles R. Jackson, President, National Association of Retired Federal Em-
ployees 117
RobertT. Mansker, Congressional Employee 120
(III)
IV
Page
Alphabetical List of Witnesses
Benson, Helene A.:
Testimony 114
Prepared statement 262
Biller, Moe:
Testimony 96
Prepared statement 239
Bonosaro, Carol A.:
Testimony 112
Prepared statement 257
Brennan, William P.:
Testimony 103
Prepared statement 247
Bryan, Hon. Richard H.:
Testimony 2
Prepared statement 125
Carrico, Ted:
Testimony 100
Prepared statement 243
Constantine, Sonya:
Testimony 89
Prepared statement 237
Duncan, Robert S.:
Testimony 110
Prepared statement 253
Finch, Johnny C:
Testimony 24, 40
Prepared statement 129, 184
Flynn, William E. Ill:
Testimony 18
Prepared statement 127
Freeh, LouisJ.:
Testimony 72
Prepared statement (with attachments) 203
Greene, Stephen H.:
Testimony 74
Prepared statement 211
Jackson, Charles R.:
Testimony 117
Prepared statement 264
Mansker, Robert T.:
Testimony 120
Prepared statement 268
Merck, Carolyn L.:
Testimony 33
Prepared statement 178
Moran, Hon. James P.:
Testimony 13
Moreland, RogerW.:
Testimony 102
Prepared statement 245
Moyer, Bruce L.:
Testimony 109
Prepared statement 248
Palladino, Vince:
Testimony 99
Prepared statement 242
Sturdivant, John:
Testimony 85
Prepared statement 212
Tobias, Robert M.:
Testimony 87
Prepared statement 234
V
Page
APPENDIX
Prepared statements ofwitnesses in order ofappearance 125
Hon. Alan K. Simpson, a U.S. Senator from the State ofWyoming, prepared
statement — 127
Federal Retirement Benefits for Members of Congress, Congressional
Staff, and Other Employees, May 1995—GAO Report No. GAO GGD-
95-78 135
GAO questions and answers submitted by Mr. Finch from Senator Stevens 194
.
Reporton Congressional Pensions submitted by Mr. Finch 270
William H. Quinn, National President, National Postal Mail Handlers
Union 345
Judge William A. Pope, II, President of the Federal Administrative Law
Judges Conference 345
Gerald W. McEntee, International President, and William Lucy, Inter-
national Secretary-Treasurerofthe AFSCME 349
Kenneth T. Lyons, National President, National Association ofGovernment
Employees 349
Questions and answers from William E. Flynn, III, in letter to Senator
Stevens, dated July 19, 1995 350
CONGRESSIONAL PENSION REVIEW
MONDAY, MAY 15, 1995
U.S. Senate,
Subcommittee on Post Office and Civil Service,
of the Committee on Governmental Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:08 p.m., in room
SD-342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Ted Stevens, Chair-
man ofthe Subcommittee, presiding.
Present: Senators Stevens, Pryor, and Dorgan.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR STEVENS
Senator Stevens. Good afternoon. Today and next Monday, this
Subcommittee will be taking a first look at the important topic of
Federal employee pension plans. Today's hearing will focus on the
mechanics of Federal pension plans, looking at the Congressional
features of the Federal pension plans and contemplating whether
there should be a modification to those Congressional features. The
focus at next Monday's hearing will be on Federal pension plans
generally, how they compare to private sector pension plans, and
whether Congress should be looking at any Legislative initiatives
to modify any ofthose plans.
We have also set aside June 19 to hear from representatives of
Federal employees, as well as Federal retiree representatives.
Now, let me say at the outset that many of us are aware that
there has been considerable media coverage recently regarding pen-
sions of former Members of Congress who retired voluntarily or
were involuntarily retired by their constituents last November. I
emphasize that they all retired under the old system, the Civil
Service Retirement System, and not the system that I helped au-
thor, the Federal Employees Retirement System.
I anticipate that these retired Members' benefits are extreme ex-
amples of Congressional pension coverage. The average Member of
Congress and Congressional employees are not nearly as fortunate
as those who retired after so many years of service. I would also
point out that when it comes to Federal employees other than
Members of Congress, I do believe that as Members we have an ob-
ligation to the taxpayers to do our best to attract the best qualified
people and to cultivate their talents in the Federal system at a rea-
sonable cost.
Part of the attractiveness of employment, whether it is Federal
or in the private sector, is what kind of a future an individual can
build toward. This future has as its foundation a retirement pro-
gram. When people are attracted to the Federal service, I believe
(l)
we owe it to them to provide a retirement system that is adequate
for their retiring years and competitive with that provided in the
private sector.
I hope that this hearing today will review Congressional pension
coverage for Members and Congressional staff, and help draw some
conclusions as to the appropriateness of the Federal pension cov-
erage.
I am pleased that you are here today, Senator Bryan. You were
the one to make the first comments on the floor concerning the
Federal pension system. It was pursuant to your suggestion that
Senator Dole indicated that we would hold this hearing and we are
holding the hearing to follow up on the Majority Leader's commit-
ment to you.
Following Senator Bryan, we will hear from Congressman Jim
Moran, ofVirginia. Following Congressman Moran's testimony, we
will hear from Ed Flynn, Associate Director for Retirement and In-
surance of the Office of Personnel Management. Our final witness
will be Johnny Finch, the Assistant Comptroller General for the
Government Accounting Division, and accompanying Mr. Finch will
be Bob Shelton, the Assistant Division Director for Resource Man-
agement Issues ofthe General Government Division ofGAO.
That said, Senator, we are happy to hear your statement.
I might ask if my friend, Senator Dorgan, has an opening state-
ment ofany kind.
Senator Dorgan. No, Mr. Chairman. I am anxious to hear Sen-
ator Bryan, and I appreciate your calling this hearing.
TESTIMONY OF HON. RICHARD H. BRYAN,1 U.S. SENATOR
FROM THE STATE OF NEVADA
Senator Bryan. Mr. Chairman, let me just preface my comments
by expressing my appreciation to you for convening this hearing.
By way of background, I became involved in this issue about a
year ago at a town hall meeting. A constituent rose—to say, look,
why is the pension system that Members of Congress why is it so
much more generous than other Federal civil service employees.
My initial response was that I did not know that that was the case,
but that if it were, I would introduce legislation to provide some
compatibility and equity between those positions.
So it is with that background, Mr. Chairman, that I have intro-
duced Senate bill 228, which is designed to restore equity in the
Congressional pension system. To accomplish this objective, Con-
gressional retirement benefits are placed on a parity with the pen-
sions ofother Federal civil servants.
Under current practice, Members of Congress and their staffs re-
ceive a more generous retirement benefit which, in my view is not
defensible and it is not acceptable. Under the present retirement
system, Members of Congress pay slightly more into their Federal
pension plans than do other Federal workers, but even taking con-
sideration the additional contribution that is made, the retirement
benefit which Members of Congress receive is substantially more
beneficial than others that are part ofthe retirement system.
•Theprepared statementofSenator Bryan appearsonpage 125.
