E-Gobrecht, vol. 3, no. 8

2007·0.29 MB·English

TheE-Gobrecht
Volume3,Issue8,August 2007
WholeNumber29
TheE-Gobrecht is anawardwinningelectronicpublicationofthe LibertySeated
Collectors Club(LSCC). The LSCC is anon-profit organizationdedicatedtothe
attributions ofthe LibertySeatedCoinseries. The LSCC provides theinformation
containedinthis email newsletterfrom various sources freeofcharge as a general service
tothemembershipandothers withthis numismaticinterest. Youdonot havetobea
LSCC membertobenefit fromthis newsletter; subscriptiontothe E-Gobrechtis available
toanyone. All disclaimers areineffect as the completeness and/oraccuracyofthe
informationcontainedhereincannot be completelyverified. Contact informationis
includedneartheendofthis newsletter.
Miscellaneous Notes fromtheEditor
Editor’s comments. This month’s issueis muchshorterthanusual. Iattributethis
tomost oftheregularcontributors arebusypreparingtheir masterpieces forthe100th
IssueoftheGobrecht Journal andarealso busyreadyingforthe ANAConventionin
Milwaukee.
Pleasetrytoattendthe LSCC annual meetingat theANAConventionin
Milwaukee. Themeetingis scheduledfor Thursdaymorning at 9AM intheMidwest
Airlines ConventionCenter. Therearemanyinteresting items ontheagendaincluding
approvingtheLSCC Hall ofFameanddiscussions ofthe Gobrecht Journalissue#100.
Besides, thisis good opportunitytomeet andvisit with yourfellowseatedliberty
collectors.
LSCC members LenAugsburgerand Darrell Low are presentingatalkentitled
“LibertySeatedCoinage: ACollector’s Overview”at theANAConventiononFriday,
August 10,2007,10AM. Pleasetrytoattendand support LenandDarrell.
Don’t forget tocast your vote forthe LSCC officers forthe upcomingyear’s term.
Aballot wasincludedwiththelatest issueofthe Gobrecht Journal. Take afewmoments
andsendit toJohnMcCloskeybytheAugust 15thduedate. Resultswill beannouncedin
mid-September.
Wehave11newsubscribers this past month,someresultingfrom thepress we
receivedinthelatestissueof TheNumismatist. Everymonth Iseem to get rejected
emails–if you change youremail address,besuretolet meknowso Icanupdatemy
privateemail address listingand you cancontinue toreceivetheE-Gobrecht.
Acknowledgements. Manythanks toJim Gray, LenAugsburger,andthe
subscribers who correspondedwithme.
TheE-Gobrecht Volume 3, Issue8 1
Availabilityofpast issues. Throughthe generosityof GerryFortin,theprevious
issues oftheE-Gobrecht arereadilyaccessibleon his seateddimewebsiteat
http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/LSCC.htm.
Pleaseconsider submittingsomethingfor print. It neednot beelaborate;it can
besomethingas simpleas ashort noteon your favoritevariety,neat find,nicecherry
pick,happenings at acoin show,rareLibertySeatedcoinagecomingupfor auction,
etc. Ifyou areinterested in it,rest assured,others will betoo! Sharinginformation is
agoal ofthis newsletter. This is acontinuingplea.
Features in this issue
==> QuestionofMonthbyJim Gray.
==> AuctionNews byJim Gray.
==> National GalleryofArt portrait ofChristian Gobrecht?
==> ContentiononGobrecht Dollars.
==> Recent subscribercorrespondence.
==> Advertisements forWantedorSaleof LibertySeatedCoinage.
==> LSCC Calendar.
==> Informationonthe LibertySeatedCollectors Club.
Details
==> Question of the month byJimGray. This forum hopes toincrease collector
interactionandcorrespondence. Yourparticipationis welcomedandencouraged. Send
yourreplies and comments [email protected].
Forthe Junequestion, Will Seatedcoins ever becollectedbydievarietywiththesame
enthusiasmas largecents andbust halves? If so, whichSeatedseries gives themost
opportunitytocollect bydievariety?
FromAlan Zischke: Myopinionthat theenthusiasm experiencedthrough lookingfor
theR5toR8’s,huntingforthose rare Overtons nowthat theyprettywell all havebeen
covered. Bust Half Collectors shouldbemadeawarethroughourunbeatablepublications
theGobrecht Journal andofcoursetheE-Gobrecht. Plentyoftalentedwriters cross both
Series. Forthosethat don't,tomeshouldbeplannedonDie Varietiesand tales toldofa
vast newhuntingground all theyhavetodois movefrom cherrypickedoutcappedbust
halfland(myapologies Busties)overtothis fertilelandofsimilarvarieties except inour
languagewecall them WBs. Yes,ifwewritethe books "theyshall come". Withtongue,
albeit,incheek.
From KeithScott: Dievarieties will betheupandcomingrage. Auctioncatalogs are
pushingthese andevenquotingreferencebooksverbatim. Gradingcompanies certify
varieties andDealers are morecareful tokeepcherry- pickers at bay. The real turning
point is whenadievarietyis listedinamajorpriceguide. It wouldhelp if more
referencebooks wereavailable(i.e. WB?).
TheE-Gobrecht Volume 3, Issue8 2
LastMonth’s (July) Question
If youneededarareSeatedcoinsuchas anAU1878-Shalf dollar for yourcollection
andonewas for salebyadealer or at anauction,how wouldyoudeterminewhat price
youwouldpayor bidinorder toobtainthecoin?
FromBill Bugert: Since Iwentthroughthis experiencewithinthepast ninemonths, I
thoughtIwould pass on mythought process. In mycase, IsuccessfullybidonanMS-62
1878-S halfdollar. From myresearchand from talkingtomygoodfriend RandyWiley,
weknewthat only10mint state1878-S halfdollars are currentlyknowntoexist. In
lookingatpastauctionresults (e.g.,myresearchfiles,Heritage archives, auction
catalogues, DickOsburn’sinventory, etc), Iknewthat thepricedifference between an
MS andalowgrade circulated1878-S was not inproportiontothegrades ofthecoins. I
decidedtotryfortheMS coin(eventhoughthe average gradeonmyhalfdollar
collectionis ahigh end XF). IusedCoinWorld’s COINValuesmagazine(TheGreysheet
wasofnovalue but Iwill not get intothat now)and previousauctionresults andprivate
andpublicsalestodeterminemybiddingwindowandfortunately, witha nudge from
Randyforthehighsideofmywindow, Iwas successful in obtainingit.
From Keith Scott: How tobuyakeydate. Studythecoinorthepictureanddetermine
thereal grade. Look at theGreysheet,laugh,and thengotoHeritage auctionarchives
whilelookingthrougha referencebookfordievarietyinfo. Look at Dick Osburn's site
forcurrent retailcomparables. Gatheradditional retail infoifthereis any. Digest all data
andplacemaximum secret bidoroffer. Imade a purchase from Heritageat FUNwitha
maximum bidalittlehigherthantheslab grade. It was onebidincrement lower,and
verymuchinthe“fairretail range,and Ihaveakeydatefilled - JOY. Keydatesdonot
followrules- wait andthepricewill goupmore.
Nootheranswers this month! Is everyonetoobusyvacationing,gardening,andcutting
grass tospendafew momentsfor ananswer?
This Month’s(August) Question
ArethethreecirculatingGobrecht Dollars, i.e.the circulationissues ofDecember,1836,
March,1837and December,1839legitimateparts ofthe LibertySeatedseries?
==>
AUCTIONNEWS
ByJimGray
Thesummerdoldrums hit thecoinauctionmarket withonlytheHeritage,
SummerFUNsalebeingconductedinJuly.
ThesalefeaturedaVF-301844dimefor$805,an AU-581858-S dime,which
onlysoldfor$1,092due toscratches, andacleanedAU-501859-S dimeforareasonable
$1,610.
TheE-Gobrecht Volume 3, Issue8 3
Quarters includedan1842-Osmall dateincleaned F-12for$920,acleaned XF-
401858-S quarter at $632,andawholesome1861-S quarterinXF-40that went toa
happybuyerfor$1,725. Acleaned1862-S quarterinAUbrought $920,whereas avery
niceoriginal VF-351864-S quarterrangthebell for$3,220. Acorroded1866-S quarter
inF-12realizedameager $632andacleaned and corroded1867-S inVF-30didworseat
$747. Averynice1870-CC quarterinVF-25,andafindforthe fine/veryfinecollector,
soaredto$32,200.
AnAU-501870-CC half dollar,corrodedandporous, didnot sell,but anice
original 1871-CC halfin XF-40went for$2,990. Aproblem free1873-CC arrows halfin
XF-45hammered for$2,550.
An1855dollarinAU-58,whichwas slabbed and inspiteofanoldcleaning,still
realized$5,462. Anattractive1878-CC TradeDollarinXF-40soldfor$2,300whilea
cleaned AU-58example ofthesamedatedidnot sell.
Somegreat Seated coins aretobesoldat auctioninAugust soIam surethat next
month's auctionnews will havesomeexcitingresults.
==> National Galleryof Artportraitof Christian Gobrecht? LenAugsburger,aka
“TheChristianGobrecht HistoryDetective,”sent inalinktoaphotographinthe
National GalleryofArt that couldpossiblybe an earlyportrait ofChristianGobrecht.
Depictedbelow, withcredit totheNational Galleryof Art,is thatportraitwiththe
accompanyinginformation.
Origin: American
Entitled: Portrait ofaMan,circa 1840
Oil oncanvas, 86.5x68.7cm (34-1/16”x 27-1/16”)
AndrewW.MellonCollection
Catalognumber: 1947.17.37
Lenoriginallythought this portrait was ofChristianGobrecht
but as hesays inanemail tome, “Iexchangedsomeemail with
thecurators. Theyareno longer attributingthis paintingto
AsherDurandoridentifyingit as that ofGobrecht. I havenot
lookedintothis indetail,but theprovenances ofmanyofthe
otherpaintings that came from theoriginal Mellon gift arealso doubted. What wecanbe
sureofis that this paintingwas exhibitedmultipletimes around1900andpresentedas
Gobrecht. Ialso havethe1948Smithsonianreportidentifyingit as Gobrecht. Otherthan
that,wehaveonlytheotherportraits tocompare against,and Idonotsee adefinite
matchthere. So,fornow it is just a curiosity. Ithinkweshouldgo ahead andrunthis
item intheE-Gobrecht.” Hopefully,morewill comeabout onthis. Thanks,Len.
==> Contention onGobrechtDollars. TheJuly31,2007issueof The Numismatic
Newscontains aninterestingarticleentitled“Revisionist theorywrongabout Gobrecht.”
TheE-Gobrecht Volume 3, Issue8 4
Briefly,this article’sauthors,R.W.JulianandCraigSholley,present their argument for
reinstating“…(Walter) Breen’s theorythatoriginalGobrecht dollars canbedetermined
bynotingthat theeagleflies upwardwhenthecoinis properlyrotated…” Previous
argumentsbyMichael CarboneauandJim Gray,called “Revisionists”byJulianand
Sholley,claim otherwise andhavebeenwidelyacceptedbytheRedbookandthegrading
services. Seemingly,morediscussionwill aboundonthis issue. FortheCarboneauand
Graytheory,seeGobrecht Journals Volume27, Issue79(November2000 –PartI),
Volume28, Issue82(November2001–Part II),andVolume29, Issue87(July2003–
PartIII).
==> Recentsubscriber correspondence.
FromJohn McCloskey, President, LSCC: Ihave enclosedadraft copyoftheHall of
Famedocument that Iwouldlike youtoincludein yournext E-Gobrechtnewsletter.
(Editor, it was emailedinits entiretyinaSpecial Editionof theE-Gobrecht onJuly21st.
It is also postedontheLSCC websiteat
http://www.lsccweb.org/LSCC_Hall_of_Fame.php.) Iwouldliketohave avoteonthis
document at themeetinginMilwaukeeandthenewsletterwouldbea good waytoget a
copyofthedocument in thehands ofmembers beforethemeeting.
FromDennis Hengeveld (In theNetherlands): DearMr. Bugert,although I'm not a
member(IliveintheNetherlands so I'm not evensurethat is possible) Ienjoyreading
theE-journal ofthe LSCC. Personally, Icollect SeatedHalfDimes although Iplanto
expandthatwiththeotherSeatedSeries.
Oneofmybiggesthobbies relatedto coins is writingarticles aboutthem.
Although IhavenevervisitedtheUS,Istill enjoywritingabout thesecoins,evenwhen
thefact that Ihavenever seenmanyofthecoins Iwriteabout takenintoconsideration. I
amfinishinganewarticleabout collectingSeated Coins bydate only. Iexpect tofinish
thearticlethis weekend, andit will totalupat about 3,500words. (Its one ofmany
articles I'vebeenworkingonmoreorless duringthelast 5 years. Mybiggest project was
started20months ago andfutures the4CC SeatedDollars. Ihopetohave it finishedby
theendofthe yearhas a largeonlinearticleorpossibleasmall book). Is therea
possibilitytoincludethis edition(spreadover)the E-Gobrecht? Ithinkmanypeoplewill
enjoythe article ashave manydonewithmyprevious projects.
Thanks for your consideration. Dennis Hengeveld,Doetinchem,TheNetherlands
P.S. A nearlycompletelist oftheonlinearticles Iwrotecanbefoundhere:
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=468233&highlight_k
ey=y
(Editor: Checkoutthis link–hehas somegreat articles andwelookforward tothe
articles onLibertySeatedcoins!)
FromAnonymous: “Iknowweliketotrack auctionresults onsomeofthebetterseated
coins. Iwantedtoinform youIsuccessfullypurchasedan1871-CC seateddimeina
PCGSVF35withagood possibilityof gradinga XF40inaprivatesale at theFUNshow.
Thecoinis theformerRichmondsalecointhat was gradedVF35byNGCtherebythe
populationcount is overstatedby2. It will showuptwotimes at NGC andnow1at
PCGS. Thepricepaidwas $14,000.” (Editor, Great lookingcoin–congratulations!)
TheE-Gobrecht Volume 3, Issue8 5
FromBill Bugert: Forthoseof yourwhohaven’t seen theauctioncatalog,theStacks
saleoftheJ.A.Sherman Collectionis full of LibertySeatedcoinage,manyofthem very
rare. ScheduledforAugust 5,2007inMilwaukeebeforetheANAConvention,lots
includeaPCGS-651866-S halfdime,two1871-CC dimes, three1873-CC dimes, an
1874-CC dime,anNGC-581856-S/s quarter,two 1870-CC quarters,two1844/1844-O
halfdollars, anMS 1855-S halfdollar,threehigh grade1870-CC halves,twoMS 1878-
CC halves, an1878-S half dollar,andsevenGobrecht Dollars. Next month’s “Auction
News”shouldtobenoteworthy.
Advertisements forWanted orSaleof LibertySeated Coinage
RareCoins forSale: Since1979, David LawrenceRare Coinshas specializedinSeated
andBarber coinage forcollectors. Pleasevisit ourwebsitefor6,000+offerings of U.S.
&Worldcoins, currency, andstamps forsale and auction. Weare also interestedin
buyingorselling yourcoins at auction. http://www.davidlawrence.comor phone1-800-
776-0560,members: PNG,ANA(life),FUN,CSNS
Cuds &Rotated Dies Wanted: Lookingtopurchasemajordiebreaks / retainedcuds /
full cuds / shattereddiestates on LibertySeatedQuarters andHalves. Also,major
rotateddies of greaterthan75degrees CW orCCW. Preferenceis forbreaks/cudsinthe
fieldareas only,no rim cuds please. OtherU.S. series ofinterest as well. Pleasereply
directlytoPaul Kluth@[email protected] ortothee-mail address oftheE-Gobrecht
newsletter. Thanks!
LSCCCalendar
- Gobrecht Journal Issue#99 - waspostal mailed duringthe 3rdweekof July2007.
- Colorphotos fortheGobrecht Journal’s 100thIssueaccepted –until August 1,2007.
TheE-Gobrecht Volume 3, Issue8 6
- Annual Meetingofthe LSCC at theANAConvention,Midwest Airlines Convention
Center,Milwaukee,WI –August9,2007,9AM.
- “LibertySeatedCoinage: ACollector’s Overview”byLen Augsburger andDarrell
Low- ANAConvention, Friday,August 10,2007,10AM.
- Ballots due forthenext term of LSCC officers –toJohnMcCloskeybyAugust 15.
- Dues notice and ballot forThe Gobrecht JournalAward –September2007.
- LSCCofficers’ electionresults announced –Mid-September.
- 100th Issueofthe Gobrecht Journal –November2007.
- LSCC SeatedDollar census–2008.
- LSCC TradeDollarcensus–2009.
Information,input,comments,criticisms,orsuggestions forimprovements tothis E-
Gobrechtareactivelysolicitedfrom anyone and maybesent [email protected]
writingor calling:
Bill Bugert
Editor,E-Gobrecht
P.O.Box 3761
Gettysburg,PA17325-6927
[phone]
Tobeaddedorremoved from theE-Gobrechtmailinglist,sendanemail messagewith
thewords "Subscribe/Unsubscribe"inthesubject lineofthemessageto
[email protected].
Information on theLibertySeated Collectors Club
The LSCC Pledge. Toencourage,promote,anddispensenumismaticknowledgeofthe
LibertySeatedcoins; tocultivatefraternal relations amongits members and all those
interestedinthescience ofnumismatics.
LSCC Officers.
President: JohnMcCloskey.
Vice-President: LarryBriggs.
Secretary/Treasurer: Len Augsburger.
LSCC website. http://www.lsccweb.org/LSCC_Hall_of_Fame.php.
LSCC Membership Information. Dues are$15per year andincludethreeissues ofThe
Gobrecht Journal,an awardwinningnumismaticpublication. TojointheLibertySeated
Collectors Club,forTheGobrecht Journal mailingaddress changes, or for other
membershipquestions, correspond withthe LSCC SecretaryLenAugsburgerat:
LeonardAugsburger
P.O.Box 6114
VernonHills, IL60061
Phone: [phone].
Email:[email protected].
TheE-Gobrecht Volume 3, Issue8 7
Articles, comments, oradvertisements forpublicationinTheGobrecht Journal maybe
addressedtothe LSCC President:
Dr.JohnW.McCloskey
President, LSCC,andEditor,TheGobrecht Journal
Email address: [email protected]
TheE-Gobrecht is notcopyrighted;useits contentfreelybutpleasebesuretoquote
theE-Gobrecht and theLibertySeated Collectors Club.
TheE-Gobrecht Volume 3, Issue8 8