E-Gobrecht, vol. 3, no. 5

2007·0.04 MB·English

TheE-Gobrecht
Volume3,Issue 5,May 2007
WholeNumber26
TheE-Gobrecht is anawardwinningelectronicpublicationofthe LibertySeated
Collectors Club(LSCC). The LSCC is anon-profit organizationdedicatedtothe
attributions ofthe LibertySeatedCoinseries. The LSCC provides theinformation
containedinthis email newsletterfrom various sources freeofcharge as a general service
tothemembershipandothers withthis numismaticinterest. Youdonot havetobea
LSCC membertobenefit from this newsletter; subscriptiontothe E-Gobrechtis available
toanyone. All disclaimers areineffect as the completeness and/oraccuracyofthe
informationcontainedhereincannot be completelyverified. Contact informationis
includedneartheendofthisnewsletter.
Miscellaneous Notes fromtheEditor
Announcements. There will bean LSCC Regional meetingon Friday,June29,at
theBaltimoreshow. Takenote ofthechangeinday; thelast LSCC meetingat Baltimore
was conductedonSaturday. This is aFridaymeeting.
Acknowledgements. Manythanks toJim Gray, LenAugsburger,GerryFortin,
Bill Cowburn,andthesubscribers who correspondedwithme.
Availabilityofpast issues. Throughthe generosityof GerryFortin,theprevious
issues oftheE-Gobrecht arereadilyaccessibleon his seateddimewebsiteat
http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/LSCC.htm.
Pleaseconsidersubmittingsomethingforprint. It neednot beelaborate; it canbe
somethingas simpleas a short noteon yourfavoritevariety,neat find,nice cherrypick,
happenings at acoinshow,rare LibertySeatedcoinagecomingupfor auction,etc. If
youareinterestedinit,rest assured,others will be too! Sharinginformationis agoal of
this newsletter. This is acontinuingplea.
Features in this issue
==> QuestionofMonthbyJim Gray.
==> AuctionNews byJim Gray.
==> SeatedCoinageRegistryUpdateat www.seateddimevarieties.com byGerryFortin.
==> Whywas thelegendmovedfrom theobversetothereversein1860byBill
Cowburn.
==> Recent subscribercorrespondence.
==> Advertisements for theSaleof LibertySeatedCoinage.
==> LSCC Calendar.
==> Informationonthe LibertySeatedCollectors Club.
TheE-Gobrecht Volume 3, Issue5 1
Details
==> Question of the month byJimGray. This forum hopes toincrease collector
interactionandcorrespondence. Yourparticipationis welcomedandencouraged. Send
yourreplies and comments [email protected].
LastMonth’s (April) Question
If youcollect Seatedbydate,typeandmintmark, whichis moreimportant,thecoinor the
grade?
FromAlan Zischke: Ifit's amatteroffillingthe holeorgrade"myholes are gettingto
beinrarifiedterritoryand Ithinktheholes would haveit,although Ialways liketobuy
thebest grade Ithink Icanafford…if you catchmydrift. Heh. DurnCredit Cards!
From Keith Scott: Collectingbymajorvarieties (Redbook,Greysheet)is hardenough.
I'vehad afewbargains through eBay(with good pictures)that Ideem as a varietyinstead
ofduplicate. Best was from theUK. Indecidingonacquisitions, Ichoose conditionand
rarityas most important. Thereis oftendart-throwingand cointossing.
Secondis commentary. Thereis alist ofwords theincludecleaned,scratched,corroded,
rims filed,counterstamped,holed,repaired,artificiallytoned,tooled,whizzed,
reengraved, alteredsurfaces, anda fewothers. Otherthana "natural coin" that is not
messedwith,oneormore"badadjectives"will reducethenormal valuebysome
discount. Acollectorcanalways spendmorethat adealerandwhenaveryrare "problem
coin"is offeredthereis a verystrongdesiretofill thespace.
Discount andeye appeal are good guides. Ihave respect for NCS andaniceslabbed
"genuine"oreven "holed-repaired"wouldbewelcomed. Fillingspaces can involve
waiting years whilewatchingprices climbfrom veryhighto evenworse. Alifetimeis
hardlylongenough,but Iwill keepgoinganyway.
FromManyOthers: MonthlyE-Gobrechtquestions arepostedonGerryFortin’s
messageboardatwww.seateddimevarieties.com. ToavoidduplicationhereintheE-
Gobrecht,anyonecan access thosequestions and answers onGerry’s website. Forthose
of you whohavenot accessedit,this messageboardcurrentlyhas about 75active
members whoroutinelydiscuss various interestingtopics andquestions ofall
denominations oftheseatedseries. Tryit; youwill most likelylikeit! Go tohis website
at thelinkaboveand clickon‘Message Boards.” It is easytosignup–followthe
directions.
This Month’s(May) Question
Is it easier tocompletea date,typeandmint mark Seatedseries todaythat it was 25
years ago?
==>
TheE-Gobrecht Volume 3, Issue5 2
AUCTIONNEWS
ByJimGray
Stacks ClarasaleinApril featurednoSeated coins ofinterest.
TheSuperiorsale featuredan1842-Osmall datehalfdollarinVF-20withtheER
of LIBERTYwornofftheribbon. This coinsoldfor$662andit is clearthat thegrading
purists havelost thebattlewithregards toVF-20through XF-40 coins requiringa full,
bold LIBERTY.
An1872-CCdollarthat was well struckwithdeeporiginal toningand gradedAU-
58didnot sell.
TheHeritageDallas sale featuredthefollowinghalfdimes: 1838-OinXF-40with
nicetoningfor$1,150,an1842-OinMS-64withaflat head,upperstars andbowknot,
still soldfor$5,750. Anattractivewell struck1844-O,whichhaduncirculateddetails,
but hadbeencleaned,did not sell. Adeep gray, well struck1846halfdime is XF-45
went for$4,025.
Dimes featuredacleaned AU-501858-S that hadretoned,but was still glossy,for
$805. An1871-CC inVG-8withscratches, was adecent coinwithonelongscratchon
theobverse, andsoldfor $2,760. Abent anddamaged1872-CC inXF-40 didnot sell,
whilean1873-CC inVG-10,but scratchedandcleaned, gaveaniceappearance andsold
for$3,220. An1874ccdimewithsomemarks anddeepartificial toningin anAU grade
didnot sell.
Quarters featuredan1870-CC inAG-3,whichhadbeencleaned anddamaged,
still realized$4,600whilean1872-S inAU-50,whichhadbeenheavilyhairlinedand
tonedbackwithdarkblobs particularlyonthereverse,onlyrealized$4,025.
An1844-OdoubledatehalfdollarinAUcleaned hadnicetoning,whichwas
perhaps artificial,andstill realized$3,565. Acleanedanddamaged1870-CC inF-12
realized$1,610whilefivebidders ran anAG1873NoArrows Open3half dollarto
$1,955.
Dollars featuredan1850-OinMS-64andtiedfor thebest graded. Thecoinwas
muchdarkerinthepictureintheholderthanthelargesizedpicturedisplayedinthe
catalogue andrealized$31,050. An1852original dollarinMS-62,which showedsome
dark areas inthecolorphotograph, but somemuch darker areas photographedintheslab
didnot sell. An1854dollarwithUncdetails, but cleanedandwithaplanchet flaw,
realized$4,600whileaverywell struck1856dollarinMS-62soaredto$8,625.
AcleanedanddippedAU-551872-CC dollardidnot sell nordidacleanedAU
1878-CC Tradedollar.
==> SeatedCoinageRegistryUpdateat www.seateddimevarieties.com byGerryFortin.
TheE-Gobrecht Volume 3, Issue5 3
Libertyseated coinagespecialist haveacceptedandsupportedtheconcept ofan
openregistryfortheinclusionofrawand certifiedcoins. Initially,theregistrywas
limitedtoLibertyseated dimes sets includingTop 100DieVarieties, Business Strikes
Basicset andBusiness Strikes withVarieties set. Six collectors supportedthenewopen
registryconcept andofferedtheirseateddimesets tobeginpopulatingtheregistry.
Thesesets rangedfrom existingmint statePCGSorNGC registrysets tofullyraw
submissions. Onecouldfeel ofthe enthusiasm of collectors beingabletopost theirraw
sets orpartiallycertified sets inaregistryformat. Afteramonthofopenregistry
publicity, Idecidedtohighlight individual branch mint sets subsets from themainseated
dimesets. Needless tosay, fourcollectors instantlyagreed andthebranch mint open
registrysets wereborn. As ofthewritingofthis update,theopenregistrylists 29seated
dimesets.
InlateMarch,SteveCraincompletedthedefinitionoftheseatedhalfdime
Business Strikes Basicset andBusiness Strikes withVarieties set. Stevewas kind
enoughtoofferhis impressivecollectionas theanchorset fortheseatedhalfdimeopen
registry. Thedefinitionofindividual dateweights is inprogress and Ihopetohavethe
halfdimeopenregistrymodulecompletedbythe endofMay. Todate,fourhalfdime
sets arelisted.
Onthewww.seateddimevarieties.com messageboards, Iaskedforvolunteers to
aidwiththedevelopment oftheseatedquarterand seatedhalfdollarregistrymodules.
Theresponse was favorableand Iam lookingforwardtosupport from Bill Bugert in
buildingthehalfdollar registrymodule. Seatedhalves are astrongfavorite ofmany
collectors and Iexpect thehalfdollarregistrymodulepopularityto growquicklywith
numerous listings bymid summer. Remainingwill betheseatedquarters andseated
dollars series toroundout theopenregistry. Iunderstandthat several individuals are
developingseatedquarterregistryset definitions andrarityweights. Iwelcometheir
efforts, andlook forward tofuturecontent andset submissions.
E-Gobrecht subscribers areencouragedtoreviewtheseated coinage registryat
http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/registry/reg_index.htm. Pleaseconsider
participatingbydownloadingan excel submissionform from individual set registry
pages. Otherwise,individuals [email protected]
workout theirset submissionapproach.
Someof youmaywonderwhyIam placingso mucheffort towards the
constructionofamanual seatedcoinageregistry. Myresponseis simple. Ibelievethat
numerous completedsets ofseated coinage arein existence. However,most ofthesesets
areincirculated grades andtheirowners arenot inclinedtospendmonies forcertification
fees. Theopenregistryis achancefor collectors toexhibit theiruncertifiedsets onthe
internet,inaformat consistent withthemajorTPGcompanies. Ihopethat more LSCC
members will feel comfortabletoexhibit theircollections toothers inthenumismatic
communityandsecondly,takeprideintheir accomplishments.
As Always…HappyHunting. GerryFortin
TheE-Gobrecht Volume 3, Issue5 4
==> Whywas thelegendmovedfrom theobversetothereversein1860byBill
Cowburn. (Editor, duringarecent discussionwith Bill at thelast Baltimorecoins show,
Bill raisedaninterestingquestiontowhichIhadnoanswer. Isuggestedhe submit it to
theE-Gobrecht for thereaders toponder andrespond. Hereit is.) Hereis myquestion
regardingthemovefrom ReversetoObverseofthelegendin1860. Iam hopingthat
several members will replywiththeirthoughts andperhaps evenwithoriginal
documentationthat will answerwhythelegendwas moved.
In1860,thelegend 'UnitedStates ofAmerica'was movedfrom thereverse tothe
obverseonbothhalfdimes anddimes. Doanyreaders knowwhythis was done?
Movingthelegend was a flagrant violationofthe Act ofJanuary18,1837, which
requiredthat thelegend 'UnitedStates ofAmerica'beonthereverseofall silvercoins.
That legislationwas stillineffect in1860.
Breensuggests that the movewas donetoimprovethequalityofstriking;
however,this seems tometobeaweakargument sincetheolddesignhad beenstruck
morethan20 years. Would notachangetoimprovethequalityofstrike havebeendone
muchsooner?
Itwas also suggested(in thewords of Longacre)that thenewwreathof cereal on
thereversewas morenational incharacter. Is this perhaps somehint that thechanges
werebeingmadeas apatrioticeffort (from theviewoftheNorth)sinceevenin1860,it
was clearthatcivil war was coming? Afterall,in1859JohnBrownledtherevolt at
Harpers Ferryandnoless ofastatesmanthanHenryClaystatedthat ifa Republicanwas
electedin1860,theUnionwouldnot hold.
So,whywas thelegend movedin1860breakingthelawas it was done? What
was so important that it was done? Iam askingthereaders oftheE-Gobrechttosubmit
theirthoughts onthis subject andespeciallyask that anyreaderthat has anyofficial
documentationexplainingthereasons forthemovetosharethat informationwiththe
group.
==> Subscribercorrespondence.
FromJimGray: InresponsetoViewfrom theRim (inlast month’s issueof theE-
Gobrecht) , Iwouldsaythefollowing: Thanks for thekindremarks about AuctionNews
and Iam gladthat youandotherreaders findit worthwhile. Whenpresented Ido give
results formajorvarieties suchas the1854-OhugeOquarter,1844double datehalf
dollar,etc. As forpre-salepredictions, themajor problem is that I donotget the
catalogueintimetoget predictions prepared amonthbeforethesale. Anotherpoint is
that whilemodernphotos are great, youstillcannotgiveavalidvaluation without
examiningthecoininperson. Theonlytruetest ofwhat acoinisworthis thehammer
priceat sale. Weappreciateinquires from you andotherreaders andwill makeevery
effort tomaketheE-Gobrecht as informative as wecan.
FromM.T.Whalen: (Backgroun: Whalenhas aMaccomputer andwas having
problems openingtheAdobeVersionof theE-Gobrecht. His Mac computer kept saying
TheE-Gobrecht Volume 3, Issue5 5
that it is acorruptedfileandwill not openit. Hehas bothAdobeand Word installedon
his computer. Hereis his solution.) Theproblem that wewerehavingon ourendof
openingtheE-Gobrecht intheformat inwhich yousendit now,has beensolved. Iwant
tosharethesolutionw/youbecausesomeoneelse might havemight havethesame
problem. NormallyweopeneverythinginandworkinSafari. Safari will not let this
typeof filebeopened. However, wetriedopeninginFirefox insteadandthefileopens
easily. Both genres haveAdobeReader.
FromLen Augsburger: Aninterestingitem recentlyappearedon www.abebooks.com:
Manuscript NotebookandSketchbook.
GOBRECHT,Christian.
Bookseller: BOOKPRESS LTD.(Williamsburg, VA,U.S.A.)
Price: US$9350.00[Convert Currency]
Quantity: 1,ShippingwithinU.S.A.:US$3.50
BookDescription: (BaltimoreandPhiladelphia: 1806,1806. Manuscript Notebookand
Sketchbook.- 1823). Small 4to.(8x 61/2inches). Sheespine,decorated paperboards.
72leaves, ofwhich2/3areused.ChristianGobrecht (1785-1844)was anotedAmerican
engraver,punch cutteran inventor. This notebookcanbedividedintothree sections.
Thefirst has nineteenpenandgraphitesketches ofanorganheinventedbetween1816
and1821,"areedorgan madeofan assemblageofmetallictongues placed inacase and
operatewithabellows andkeys." Thesecondsectionconcerns itselfwithpunchcutt and
typefoundingmachineryfrom theearly1820s whenGobrecht worked for Murray,
Draper,Fairman &Company,Philadelphia, wherehewas notedforhis designs and
models fortheUnitedStates Mint.Manuscript material onAmericengravingofthe
periodis especiallyrare. Thethirdsectionis fifty-threepages ofrecipes andreceipts,
manyof whichdeal withgildingandfaux-gildusingbrass,cast steel andsilver,along
withgreat details onaquatinting,solderingfororganpipes, andother craft functions. At
thebeginningare earlydrawings andlateraproof ofanengraved callingcardfor 'Capt.
Isaac Hull,U.S.N. Thebookcontains theengravedbookplateofChr.Gobrecht. The
bookremainedintheGobrecht familyuntil 1928whenit was presentedto theFranklin
Instituteandsoldbythem inOctober2006.
Bookseller Inventory#36384, Iinquiredabout this item yesterdayandwas toldthat it
hadalreadysold. Apity. Thesecondsectionwouldbethemost interesting- Gobrecht is
thought tohave createddateandletterpunches for theUS mint duringthis period-
perhaps this sketchbook hadfurtherinformationonthis?
FromRich Uhrich. Iam happyto announce: Mywebsiteis nowliveat
www.richuhrichcoins.com. Ideal inrareU.S.coins from 1792todate,especiallysilver,
nickel,andcoppercoins, as well as varieties anderrors. Myareas of focus are Bust and
Seatedhalfdimes, Bust andSeateddimes, Bust andSeatedquarters, Seated halves, and
Seateddollars. Ienthusiasticallybuyscarceand raredates inmyareas offocus.
Advertisements forthe Saleof LibertySeated Coinage
TheE-Gobrecht Volume 3, Issue5 6
Dimes ForSale
1864Full VFobverse, Finereverse,darkcolor,net F15$600.
1873NA,CL3,VG10(fiveclearletters inObverseshield,reverserim visiblebut flat ina
spot),$25
Call Whalen, LSCC #1890,@831-475-0934oremail [email protected].
RareCoins forSale: Since1979, David LawrenceRare Coinshas specializedinSeated
andBarber coinage forcollectors. Pleasevisit ourwebsitefor6,000+offerings of U.S.
&Worldcoins, currency, andstamps forsale and auction. Weare also interestedin
buyingorselling yourcoins at auction. http://www.davidlawrence.comor phone1-800-
776-0560,members: PNG,ANA(life),FUN,CSNS
Calendar
- Regional Meetingofthe LSCC at Central States,St, Louis, MO –May11,2007at 9
AM,Room 122,ConventionCenter.
- Regional Meetingofthe LSCC at the Baltimore CoinShow - June29,2007,Friday.
- Colorphotos fortheGobrecht Journal’s 100thIssueaccepted –until August 1,2007.
- Annual Meetingofthe LSCC at theANAConvention,Milwaukee,WI–August 2007.
- Dues notice and ballot forThe Gobrecht JournalAward –September2007.
- 100th Issueofthe Gobrecht Journal –November2007.
- LSCC SeatedDollar census–2008.
- LSCC TradeDollarcensus–2009.
Information,input,comments,criticisms,orsuggestions forimprovements tothis E-
Gobrechtareactivelysolicitedfrom anyone and maybesent [email protected]
writingor calling:
Bill Bugert
Editor,E-Gobrecht
P.O.Box 3761
Gettysburg,PA17325-6927
[phone]
Tobeaddedorremoved from theE-Gobrechtmailinglist,sendanemail messagewith
thewords "Subscribe/Unsubscribe"inthesubject lineofthemessageto
[email protected].
Information on theLibertySeated Collectors Club
The LSCC Pledge. Toencourage,promote,anddispensenumismaticknowledgeofthe
LibertySeatedcoins; tocultivatefraternal relations amongits members and all those
interestedinthescience ofnumismatics.
LSCC Officers.
TheE-Gobrecht Volume 3, Issue5 7
President: JohnMcCloskey.
Vice-President: LarryBriggs.
Secretary/Treasurer: Len Augsburger.
LSCC Membership Information. Dues are$15per year andincludethreeissues ofThe
Gobrecht Journal,an awardwinningnumismaticpublication. TojointheLibertySeated
Collectors Club,forTheGobrecht Journal mailingaddress changes, or for other
membershipquestions, correspond withthe LSCC SecretaryLenAugsburgerat:
LeonardAugsburger
P.O.Box 6114
VernonHills, IL60061
Phone: [phone].
Email:[email protected].
Articles, comments, oradvertisements forpublicationinTheGobrecht Journal maybe
addressedtothe LSCC President:
Dr.JohnW.McCloskey
President, LSCC,andEditor,TheGobrecht Journal
Email address: [email protected]
TheE-Gobrecht is notcopyrighted;useits contentfreelybutpleasebesuretoquote
theE-Gobrecht and theLibertySeated Collectors Club.
TheE-Gobrecht Volume 3, Issue5 8